The Muppets 2011 vs Very Muppet Christmas Movie

[beaker]

I honestly don't think they are that similar. The bare bones plot is similar but it's also a plot that hundreds of movies have used. And beyond that I don't see any real significant similarities between the two films.

Really? Have you looked through this? http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Simila..._Merry_Muppet_Christmas_Movie_and_The_Muppets

Having seen the new film and VMX within the last few weeks, I find the similarities unmistakable and numerous

 

[zoebell]

i finally saw vmx for the first time. it was ok. it was nowhere near as bad as i thought it would be, as some people had said.

i liked kermit in it, but there was something off about piggy in this one, for some reason. it seemed to me anyway. and the story really wasn't that great. but there were some funny parts. i'd call it just ok.

 

[beaker]

That's very well put actually.

Aw thank you; you as well! Well for the fans' sakes I don't want to go into too much of a rant or anything, I'll just keep it simple. Forgive me for going all hippie but I just got a disturbing vibe from the whole thing (not kidding about the nightmares, heh). The things you said you liked about it, I was actually thinking that those are the things I love about The Muppet Show. But I didn't really feel any of that from VMX. That's all.

Well of course, VMX is all about an "alternate" reality. Whoopie is God, the twin towers exist in alternate world, the theater has been turned into a seedy night club, Piggy and Kermit are separated, etc.

The theme in TM is that "it's a hard cynical world, where the muppets are irrelevent".
In VMX, it's very much "wonderful life" sendup exploring the themes of "things that could or will be". I've often in my own writings explored the idea of "if x was like z, or choice a and choice b was made, this future of me would exist". I joke there's an alternate reality where I'm happy and successful.

I think both movies explore the theme of a dark harsh world...one is reality, the other is the "alternate" side, much like the "alternate dark 1985" in Back To The Future 2.
The new movie left me feeling rather depressed...I mean it works with an emotional punch in a number of scenes, especially the opening monologue...but the vibe you get from VMX I get from the new film. Perhaps these films shine a mirror at what could or should be, as well as a reflection within our own lives.

 

[Drtooth]

That cannot be a mere coincidence of how similar the two movies are. It's almost like a remake of some sort. Did Segel and Stoler ever see VMX? Maybe that's why the new movie upon reflection isn't doing it for me...it's way too similar to the meh like VMX.

I have a theory they didn't, and it just turned turned out that way because that's how things would naturally lead. It's like how in Futurama how Zapp Brannigan sounds like an impersonation of Phil Hartman, who was killed before the show went into production, but Billy West swears it wasn't, and the character just has a vibe that leads him to have that kind of voice.

Now I honestly do like VMX, and I still think it was the better of the Post-Henson projects. I can look past the datedness of the early Family Guy type humor and the strongly forced NBC cameos (I'm thankful that the Disney enforced cameos lasted all of 30 seconds... and Selina Gomez had the backhand line of "My manager told me to be here.") to see a very decent movie that actually does go deep into Kermit and gives some respect to the Kermit/Piggy relationship. If you take away all the pop culturey bits, you still get a pretty good movie.

If The Muppets was a copy/remake of VMX, it took the same subject matter and made it all the better. It took out some of the very Simpsonsy humor written by ex-Simpsons people (try to tell me they didn't make Sam into Sideshow Mel in VMX). The reference to reality shows wasn't a forced NBC promo, but rather a snide commentary on why the heck it's still around... even the fact they used Smells like Teen Spirit. TM did it better, warping the song into something silly and Muppet line (very important, since the Muppet's most popular bit was based on Moog music from a Swedish sex documentary)... where as VMX did a sound a like version only to further the Moulin Rouge parody. Even the odd out of place Kung Fu movie reference in TM was done better.

Though I do like what you're saying... VMX was all about alternate realities, TM was all about harsh realities.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Really? Have you looked through this? http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Simila..._Merry_Muppet_Christmas_Movie_and_The_Muppets

Oh yeah I did look at that; honestly I just thought some of those comparisons were a stretch. Again, these kinds of plot lines and plot points aren't that unusual in any film, never mind these two films. And like Ruahnna said, nothing is to the point where it's unnecessarily redundant.

 

[CensoredAlso]

In VMX, it's very much "wonderful life" sendup exploring the themes of "things that could or will be"

Well I've said before elsewhere, I think had the special been done years before, the whole "alternate reality" thing would have been disturbing and thought provoking. With VMX, I felt the disturbing all right, but not much of the other thing, heh. Just my opinion.

the other is the "alternate" side, much like the "alternate dark 1985" in Back To The Future 2.

Well see there you go, I had the same luke warm reaction to Back to the Future 2, lol.

Perhaps these films shine a mirror at what could or should be, as well as a reflection within our own lives.

True, movie watching is a very personal experience.

 

[Muppet Master]

Honestly I fell in love with VMX the moment it aired on T.V. I love Moulin Scrooge and everything else from the muppet christmas show. At the time it aired back in '02 it not only featured our 90's muppets (term i use for MT muppets), but Scooter had a real solid role and Rowlf wasn't too shabby with a few lines and he appeared here and there, better than MT or MFS. I lovrd the two songs Moulin Scrooge and especially Everyone Matters. And then The Muppets 2011, was it meant to literally copy VMX? Since Jason Siegel and James Bobin know that? In all TM was good as well, but it lacked a lot of muppet screentime, but I still loved it. Both films have flaws, VMX also has too many Whoopie Goldberge scenes and TM has too little muppet screentime, but in the end TM barely wins out, because it's jsut a tad better executed, because it revived the muppets as a franchise. But VMX is still just great and VMX has many muppets that TM left out like Johnny and Sal, More Rizzo, More Pepe, Mr. Poodlepants, Robin, the Elvises, but in the end both films were muppet gems and I hope to watch them again and again.

 

[Drtooth]

I, for one, feel that TM had too many Muppets and focusing on certain ones was a task in and of itself. VMX was made at a time when they were just recasting some characters, and they weren't even close to permanent recasts.

 

[snichols1973]

Earlier on, I posted a comparison between IAVMMCM and TM in the "Little Things We've Noticed" thread, dated Dec. 3, 2012:

[quote="snichols1973, post: 989246, member: 41946" ]I just finished watching It's a Very Merry Muppets Christmas Movie on DVD, and it suddenly dawned upon me:

Disney's The Muppets (2011) and IaVMMCM have very similar storylines: The Muppets are trying to save the theater, and the Muppet Theater is in jeopardy of falling into the hands of greedy business tycoons (Rachel Bitterman and Tex Richman); Kermit feels like they gave it their best shot, but they ended up short, only to be rescued by a sudden climactic plot twist, and they still manage to stick together no matter what happens to the theater, since their friendships are apparently priceless.

Aside from the Christmas and It's a Wonderful Life elements, it seems like TM is almost like a generic re-make of IaVMMCM, which means that TM seems to break the fourth wall in spoofing the story line of an earlier Muppets film, and IaVMMCM spoofs the Christmas pop culture..... [/quote]

 

[Muppet Master]

I simply can't understand why someone can hate a film that came out in '02 and then have basically a carbon-copy of it appear 9 years later and then give it CRITICAL ACCLAIM!!