The Bible and Love and Christians

[BornToWemble]

Glad I found this thread....

I'm just gonna say it like it is:

I am a Christian and I am a conservative. I also believe homosexuality is a sin. I believe in what the bible says so I believe homosexuality is sexual immorality and it is a sin.

With that out of the way....

I DO NOT believe that gays should be bullied and brought down. There are so many people in the world that have the completely wrong view on homosexuality. These are the people that hold up the 'God hates fags' signs and think all gays are going straight to **** so we should distance ourselves from them. I couldnt disagree more. There is the misconception out there that God hates gays. This is definitely not true! The bible says that God loves everyone. That also means God loves gays. I don't believe that it is our job as christians to judge whether gays are going to **** or not. That is God's job and not ours. Many christians are such hypocrites in their thinking of homosexuality. Jesus loves all people. Most of his time on earth, Jesus spent a lot of time with the most hated sinners. What would he say if he were on Earth today?

If only there were more Christians in the world that could start reading the bible as a whole and stop picking out the parts thaey wanted to hear. I wish I could say that it gets better but with a lot of hypocrites out in the world, I just don't know.

Now I don't believe homosexuality is a sin(but I don't think much on that stuff) but from what I know the Bible also says we're all sinners and all sin is equal in God's eyes, so I don't see why some people choose to pick solely on gays, as well as as you said: Judging who goes where is God's job. I know this and I'm not even technically a Christian, I can't commit myself to one faith, because I don't think as a mortal I can ever know 100% or be sure of something like that 100%.

Plus I remember reading from somewhere that the passage in Leviticus that outright condemns homosexuality is mistranslated and targets pedophilia rather than homosexuality. Not to mention I think it's impossible for anyone to follow everything from Leviticus to a T.

 

[Bannanasketch]

Thanks for replying, BornToWemble. I too believe that we are all sinners and that homosexuality should be targeted. It is not my right to judge others, because I am just as sinful in my own way. I believe that we should love the sinner, hate the sin. Point proven: me. I do things everyday that absolutely disgusts me. Yet, I can still love and care for myself despite my sin. Because God still loves me. And God loves everyone, regardless of their sin.

That being said, I'd like to bring up something else. Everyone hear should know about hate group known as Westboro Baptist Church that spews lies and twists the word of God to fit their own twisted, hateful beliefs. Well, they're coming to picket at my school. I won't reveal the date and school name for reasons of privacy but I can tell you that the students are already organizing a counter-protest that already has over 1 thousand people attending on facebook. I just felt this was something to post here and please, if you have any suggestions for our protest please let me know.

God loves everyone, Jesus loves you and God Bless America!

 

[CensoredAlso]

Plus I remember reading from somewhere that the passage in Leviticus that outright condemns homosexuality is mistranslated and targets pedophilia rather than homosexuality. Not to mention I think it's impossible for anyone to follow everything from Leviticus to a T.

I think it's safe to say much in Leviticus is uncertain at this point. As you point out it is a translation, plus you need to take into account the cultural history. I think when it refers to homosexuality, it was probably referring to health issues, rather than moral issues.

Everyone hear should know about hate group known as Westboro Baptist Church that spews lies and twists the word of God to fit their own twisted, hateful beliefs. Well, they're coming to picket at my school....the students are already organizing a counter-protest that already has over 1 thousand people attending on facebook. I just felt this was something to post here and please, if you have any suggestions for our protest please let me know.

Good for you! Of course it's ridiculous that this group keeps getting ANY media coverage. There's not enough of them to consider them a "Church," and while I support free speech, I think for the government to keep defending them DEFIES common sense.

As far as a counter protest, the most important thing is just to keep things peaceful and not open yourselves up to criticism. The Westboro people don't need your help to look foolish.

 

[BornToWemble]

Thanks for replying, BornToWemble. I too believe that we are all sinners and that homosexuality should be targeted. It is not my right to judge others, because I am just as sinful in my own way. I believe that we should love the sinner, hate the sin. Point proven: me. I do things everyday that absolutely disgusts me. Yet, I can still love and care for myself despite my sin. Because God still loves me. And God loves everyone, regardless of their sin.

That being said, I'd like to bring up something else. Everyone hear should know about hate group known as Westboro Baptist Church that spews lies and twists the word of God to fit their own twisted, hateful beliefs. Well, they're coming to picket at my school. I won't reveal the date and school name for reasons of privacy but I can tell you that the students are already organizing a counter-protest that already has over 1 thousand people attending on facebook. I just felt this was something to post here and please, if you have any suggestions for our protest please let me know.

God loves everyone, Jesus loves you and God Bless America!

Just know that no matter what you and other protestor's do, they are going to turn it into propaganda and feed it to the rest of the 'church'. I've heard of them recording the protestors on camera. They also most always have police escorts so becareful. Though I have heard of incidents where the cops would conveniently not notice someone letting air out of their tires with them or someone going up and holding up signs that would change their meaning of their sign (Like the guy holding the 'GREAT" sign over the word "SIN" on a "Gay Sex is Sin" sign). I'm not telling you to try to cause trouble, but just letting you know what might go down.

I think it's safe to say much in Leviticus is uncertain at this point. As you point out it is a translation, plus you need to take into account the cultural history. I think when it refers to homosexuality, it was probably referring to health issues, rather than moral issues.

Good for you! Of course it's ridiculous that this group keeps getting ANY media coverage. There's not enough of them to consider them a "Church," and while I support free speech, I think for the government to keep defending them DEFIES common sense.

As far as a counter protest, the most important thing is just to keep things peaceful and not open yourselves up to criticism. The Westboro people don't need your help to look foolish.

That would make a lot of sense.

I can see them allowing some of the protests, but the funeral protests... So help me if that ever happened near me. I don't think I could remain peaceful.

 

[beaker]

Wait, heralde...you grew up watching ninja turtles?

For some reason I thought you were much older(no offense)

To the topic at hand...

Even my most right wing conservative evangelist friends HATE Westboro Church, Pat Robertson, etc. They seem them as false prophets, poison pills and pretty much America's Taliban.

And the thing with homosexuality...see I know what upsets people. It's the idea of late 1970's New York area promiscuity. A time when so many gay men were just hooking up like no tomorrow. People think gay, they think random hooking up. But you look at the gay and lesbian couples waiting to get married...those people have been waiting years, sometimes decades to get married. Most straight couples would never wait that long.

When you're around gay couples in love, you feel a strong warmth and spirituality that if God exists, he would smile upon. Of course "God" if he exists probably would not smile upon gays or straights playing musical beds every night. But I think more people who have reservations about homosexuals need to meet some. To me it's like the fear of black people.

Now abortion, yeah...I can see and support why Christians oppose. I reluctantly support Roe V Wade, but it is a very ugly, disturbing thing. Im very liberal but I have a hard time getting all cheerleaderish behind it like I do for other causes.

Now I know this thread can come off as hyper critical on Christians sometimes...but let me say, outside of Europe and America, Christians a lot of times are targeted and oppressed and that aint cool. In parts of the Middle East, China, etc its dangerous to be a Christian. Everyone in the world should stand up for the rights of Christians, Sikhs, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc lest they're beliefs are used to oppress others.

Btw has anyone seen The World According to Sesame Street or When Muppets Dream of Peace? Two excellent documentaries that serve as a good primer for the situations kids face worldwide

 

[CensoredAlso]

Wait, heralde...you grew up watching ninja turtles?

For some reason I thought you were much older(no offense)

I'll take that as a compliment, lol. But yeah I've always been a turtles fan.

Now abortion, yeah...I can see and support why Christians oppose. I reluctantly support Roe V Wade, but it is a very ugly, disturbing thing. Im very liberal but I have a hard time getting all cheerleaderish behind it like I do for other causes.

You should see the 1966 film Alfie with Michael Caine. It has a very controversial scene involving a back alley abortion. Ultimately the point of the scene is that, whatever you think about abortion, it wouldn't have had to happen if couples were more responsible in the first place.

Now I know this thread can come off as hyper critical on Christians sometimes...but let me say, outside of Europe and America, Christians a lot of times are targeted and oppressed and that aint cool. In parts of the Middle East, China, etc its dangerous to be a Christian.

Everyone in the world should stand up for the rights of Christians, Sikhs, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc lest they're beliefs are used to oppress others.

Christianity is technically the major religion in the US so I think the idea of it being oppressed seems strange to people. But we forget there's the whole rest of the world which our news rarely covers and we just honestly don't think about in our daily lives.

Btw has anyone seen The World According to Sesame Street or When Muppets Dream of Peace? Two excellent documentaries that serve as a good primer for the situations kids face worldwide

I saw The World According to Sesame Street at The Paley Center for Media (and a Q&A with the filmmakers); it was incredible and very eye opening.

 

[Drtooth]

Perhaps...now stay with me...you could draw a parallel between people like Springer and Povich....and the Republican Party, the way they all manage to endear people who in fact should be outraged? Hmm....

Nah... that's not the point I was making at all. Republicans still like the party because of loyalty and whatever else reason (same with Dems) but people PURPOSELY watch Jerry and Maury because... to quote everyone's favorite fuzzy green trash can dweller... "I love it because it's trash" Much like reality shows, they purposely make sleaze so people can watch sleaze because it's so sleazy. Sleaze for Sleaze sake. And because it's sleaze, we all say... eh... it's sleaze, so let's let it go. But animation, both children's and adults is under so much annoying scrutiny in this country. I could go on a whole thing about what I've seen in Japanese kid's cartoons that they couldn't even do on South Park. Remember when Mr. Hanky was so controversial? They had talking excrement on Dr. Slump.

I'm just saying, decency people NEVER go after the stuff that's actually detrimental to society, but they always manage to put a leash on everything, adult and kid's related (Oh the horror stories the cast of Reboot had).

Yeah you know they should watch those old Ninja Turtle spots where they'd talk about the enviornment. If Donatello tells me there's global warming, that's good enough for me!

Somehow, everyone acts like Environmental messages in kid's programming is a new danger.

Eh... HELLO!?!?!

Sure, I kinda don't like that show's uber preachiness and it helps do nothing but feed the oil industry lobbyist bears, but we were trying to tell kids "HEY! Don't throw that family sized bag of Doritos out of your SUV in the pile of KFC cups and buckets strewn across someone's lawn." I've seen neighborhoods... VERY unpleasant neighborhoods.... I am NOT making any of this up. I mean, it's like Oscar lives there. But that's besides the point.

I still don't get half the stuff certain religious "leaders" use to say, "HEY! It's okay to destroy the planet God left you. Can I get some greasy oil money now?" Global Warming or not, I HATE the mess I see half the time I go places.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Nah... that's not the point I was making at all.

Oh I know it's not what you were saying; I was just making my own comparison. I think some people who watch those shows convince themselves that these shows actually help people. They don't realize just how exploitive they are.

I still don't get half the stuff certain religious "leaders" use to say, "HEY! It's okay to destroy the planet God left you. Can I get some greasy oil money now?" Global Warming or not, I HATE the mess I see half the time I go places.

I can explain the rationale, though I don't agree with it. I've just read about it many times. Some Christians mistakenly think that if you're into the enviornment (trees, animals, etc), you're too preoccupied to care about people and help them. But actually in recent years many evangelist preachers have changed their viewpoint on that and started preaching how God also wants people to care for the Earth.

I've known some very conservative Christians and while I don't agree with them, I know they're honestly trying to do the right thing. And they have been known to change their minds on issues when they learn more about them. That's why you (not you personally) can't be too hard on people. Everyone's going on a journey in life and what they think today might not be the same tomorrow. And the same for you as well.

 

[beaker]

I like that Heralde, "everyone's going on a journey in life". goodness knows I've had so many evolutions and paradigm changes.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I like that Heralde, "everyone's going on a journey in life". goodness knows I've had so many evolutions and paradigm changes.

Thanks! I mean, we all enjoy books, TV shows or movies where a character starts out flawed and ends up learning a lesson. We're all going through that story in life, it just takes longer than a couple hours, lol.

Somehow, everyone acts like Environmental messages in kid's programming is a new danger

I know, that puzzles me too! I actually also remember being in 2nd grade and our teacher reading us a Ninja Turtles (again lol) book on the dangers of pollution. Including global warming, and it wasn't questioned at all. And they also showed us that old Earth Day special with Robin Williams. It was taken for granted how important protecting the environment was.

But suddenly nowadays the issue has become very polarized and it's very confusing to me.