Bert and Ernie Gay Rumor: Settled

[CensoredAlso]

Just saying, from my experience, both parties are quite capable of being "monsterous" at times. But they're also both correct about other issues at times. To get rid of any one "side" completely I think would do more harm than good.

Though I get that you're talking about very extremist views, which tend to cause the most problems.

 

[Drtooth]

Though I get that you're talking about very extremist views, which tend to cause the most problems.

She's a very very extreme candidate. That's what I'm getting at. I'm not saying right or left is better, but ANY candidate that talks about re-education camps (especially one that doesn't know American history from a hole in the ground) is a dangerous threat to democracy. She doesn't have the same Republican, "let's badmouth the gays to get the religious vote," views more moderate (and moderate is a relative term) candidates, she clearly has it in for them, and lord only knows what would happen if she gets her way. Extremists divide, and this is why the country will never get anything done or get back on track.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I just don't take her seriously as a someone who can actually win. I think Romney will get it before her.

Though even if she did win, there's only so much a President can actually do. There's a lot of other factors to ruining a country, lol.

 

[Drtooth]

Though even if she did win, there's only so much a President can actually do. There's a lot of other factors to ruining a country, lol.

There IS only so much you can do... unless Congress is on your side. That's why the last guy got away with so much, and the guy we currently have can't get anything accomplished. But any thing like the language she speaks and having popularity is unsettling. Again, I stress there's a difference between Limbaugh and Beck. Limbaugh appeals to a certain audience that believes what he believes. Beck appeals to less rational people with dangerous conspiracy theories. Romney will probably get the nod, if not Perry (who is also pretty extreme) and Ron Paul will be swept under the rug like in '08, and quietly sit back, let his party do the same things he's complaining about, and not give conservatives a different choice by running as an indie. While I can't agree with most of Paul's politics, at least he's speaking out against what the party has become, especially the spending spree of both wars.

But enough about that.

The fact that gay people can be in the entertainment business give fodder for very nasty pseudo-religious types to say someone's brainwashing kids before they get to them. Now, here's where I'm conflicted... unless I already said this before (actually I think I did, but I will anyway).

Parents that complain about when someone's teaching their kids about gay couples who have kids. Somethings SHOULD be left to the parents, but sometimes bigotry (or at least non-bigoted, yet disagreeable beliefs) needs to be quashed by a generation. Sometimes these kids are more corrupted by their up-brining than what the media could ever tell them to believe. I mean, racist kids usually come from racists and their beliefs keep getting handed down generation by generation. And honestly, I believe that beliefs need to be questioned to find their true meaning. There's a difference between believing and parroting.

Bachman's comments on The Lion King were not only uncalled for, but something that's only passed down through scary conspiracy theories that people are suckered into believing. Remember the, no pun intended, goofy Disney Boycott by Evangelicals in the 1990's because they employ gay people as entertainers? That's like saying we have to burn Star Trek products because of George Takai. People need to accept that a portion of the gay community does get into creative fields, YET they never promote any agenda. Lion King didn't have an agenda other than the pursuit of power is a dangerous one. Sesame's "agenda" is sharing, literacy, numeral recognition, and whatever initiative they feel they need to cram down everyone's throats.

 

[mbmfrog]

You all should be ASHAMED of yourselves. I mean Jim Henson would roll over in his own grave if anyone was thinking of THIS.

I mean Sesame Street was created to be a bit ABOVE all this and just simply teach kids the basics that they all need to know for school. I truly think it is proper for the Sesame Workshop to make it so that Bert and Ernie are not gay, because that was not what they were made for in ANY WAY.

Once again, I would just like to say SHAME on ALL OF YOU.

 

[frogboy4]

You all should be ASHAMED of yourselves. I mean Jim Henson would roll over in his own grave if anyone was thinking of THIS.

I mean Sesame Street was created to be a bit ABOVE all this and just simply teach kids the basics that they all need to know for school. I truly think it is proper for the Sesame Workshop to make it so that Bert and Ernie are not gay, because that was not what they were made for in ANY WAY.

Once again, I would just like to say SHAME on ALL OF YOU.

Wow! I don't support officially assigning Bert and Ernie as gay characters either but I am shocked by your rather extreme reaction. Sesame Street was created for both educational purposes and to promote greater social understanding in the minds of kids. That's also the reason for Fraggle Rock. For anyone to exclude gays from that exposes a very ugly personal prejudice that's specifically targeted at gay people.

I also would caution you that many longtime Muppet Central members, ToughPigs members and those who work for the Muppets are also gay. The little smiley faces in your post were created by me, a fella who kisses other fellas and has done so for over 20 years. Richard Hunt who performed half of Sesame's Two-Headed Monster, Junior Gorg, Scooter, Janice, Statler, Sweetums and plenty of other characters at the core of what Muppets are all about was also gay. Proud gay people are everywhere and it's no longer acceptable to shame us or kick us around as has been a past practice.

It is appropriate for us to be somehow represented in all of life including Sesame Street. I just don't think a Bert and Ernie wedding is a thoughtful way to do that. It's too polarizing. I do agree that Ernie and Bert should stay intact just as they always have been. I simply object to your mean and judgmental response. That is not in the spirit of anything Muppets! And I find your "Jim Henson would do this" sort of rhetoric in extremely bad taste. Can't we all be a little better to one another?

 

[mbmfrog]

Wow! I don't support officially assigning Bert and Ernie as gay characters either but I am shocked by your rather extreme reaction. Sesame Street was created for both educational purposes and to promote greater social understanding in the minds of kids. That's also the reason for Fraggle Rock. For anyone to exclude gays from that exposes a very ugly personal prejudice that's specifically targeted at gay people.

I also would caution you that many longtime Muppet Central members, ToughPigs members and those who work for the Muppets are also gay. The little smiley faces in your post were created by me, a fella who kisses other fellas and has done so for over 20 years. Richard Hunt who performed half of Sesame's Two-Headed Monster, Junior Gorg, Scooter, Janice, Statler, Sweetums and plenty of other characters at the core of what Muppets are all about was also gay. Proud gay people are everywhere and it's no longer acceptable to shame us or kick us around as has been a past practice.

It is appropriate for us to be somehow represented in all of life including Sesame Street. I just don't think a Bert and Ernie wedding is a thoughtful way to do that. It's too polarizing. I do agree that Ernie and Bert should stay intact just as they always have been. I simply object to your mean and judgmental response. That is not in the spirit of anything Muppets! And I find your "Jim Henson would do this" sort of rhetoric in extremely bad taste. Can't we all be a little better to one another?

If I did go a bit too far, then I do apoogize as I did not mean to sound it out that way.

It just that a concept that is a bit of a touchy subject to speak about in today's world and to use it in a way that would change such a long standing concept of a beloved children show. It just ....

I do understand that we have a few talented gay actors and actresses in today's world and I must say I am a bit surprised to learn that Richard Hunt was gay. That was a bit of a shock to me. Still, I do have some respect to those that are both talented and Gay in Hollywood.

So once again, I do apologize if my comments came off to extreme. As I stated before this is a difficult subject to grasp on, even in todays world.

 

[frogboy4]

If I did go a bit too far, then I do apoogize as I did not mean to sound it out that way.

It just that a concept that is a bit of a touchy subject to speak about in today's world and to use it in a way that would change such a long standing concept of a beloved children show. It just ....

I do understand that we have a few talented gay actors and actresses in today's world and I must say I am a bit surprised to learn that Richard Hunt was gay. That was a bit of a shock to me. Still, I do have some respect to those that are both talented and Gay in Hollywood.

So once again, I do apologize if my comments came off to extreme. As I stated before this is a difficult subject to grasp on, even in todays world.

Thanks. I agree, it's still a sensitive subject and one that Sesame can and probably should touch on in some way in the future once this bizarre petition fades away. That really didn't help to do anything but stir the pot!

Sesame has a history of including all sorts of people and minorities with all sorts of social and political views and they skillfully do so without particularly endorsing them. I think they can put their brand of sensitivity reflecting that gay people exist in the world and on Sesame Street. They already have a multicultural cast, interracial couples, deaf and blind neighbors along with the likes of Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nadir and Laura Bush. Rosie O'Donnell and proud new father NPH has also visited the street so gay families are already somewhat included on the program.

 

[D'Snowth]

The sad truth is, there are a lot of subjects that we may want to cover on shows like SST and such, but they never will be able to: they took a big risk explaining death in 1983 regarding Mr. Hooper, and were successful, however, for every success, there have also been at least two more failures regarding sensitive issues, like divorce for example, in the infamous "banned" Snuffy and Alice's parents are divorced episode that was never aired, because it upset the children in the test audiences. Lou Berger even said there are many topics they'd like to address, but they wouldn't be able to.

Inclusion of gay lifestyle HAD been attemped on a PBS Kids show before: an episode of the Arthur spin-off Postcards from Buster had Buster meeting a girl with "two mommies", but was never aired nationwide, only once on the PBS affiliate that's involved with the production of a lot of those kids shows (WGBH); and sadly, there are a LOT of fanatic conversative church groups and homeschool groups that have boycotted PBS before for trying to teach tolerance of homosexuality... I know, because that's why we don't have those pledge drives at my local PBS affiliate anymore, because those groups dealt a devestating blow to their pledges, their pledges dropped drastically, and they tried to make up for it by increasing the pledge minimum, but that didn't help... nowadays, they only accept private funding and donations, though I know one of my colleagues has told me he wishes they could do something like that to help support children's programming again (and too, he was instrumental in shaping a lot of the facets of Steve D'Monster's personality).

Evencable children's shows have attempted to have some sort o f gay inclusion and have gotten in trouble for it, like the banned Cow and Chicken episode where Cow joins a motorcycle gang called the Buffalo Gals, composed entirely of huge masculine butch women who randomly bursts into people's homes, and chews on their carpets (wink-wink).

Sadly, homosexuality is not seen by the "public" as being "family-friendly", even Johnny Weir has been on the short end of that stick... the last I've heard, the Archie comics were planning on adding an openly gay character to their cast, not sure if that's worked out for them or not, but then again, I really don't know of anybody (other than Drtooth maybe) who actually reads Archie Comics.

 

[frogboy4]

The sad truth is, there are a lot of subjects that we may want to cover on shows like SST and such, but they never will be able to: they took a big risk explaining death in 1983 regarding Mr. Hooper, and were successful, however, for every success, there have also been at least two more failures regarding sensitive issues, like divorce for example, in the infamous "banned" Snuffy and Alice's parents are divorced episode that was never aired, because it upset the children in the test audiences. Lou Berger even said there are many topics they'd like to address, but they wouldn't be able to.

Inclusion of gay lifestyle HAD been attemped on a PBS Kids show before: an episode of the Arthur spin-off Postcards from Buster had Buster meeting a girl with "two mommies", but was never aired nationwide, only once on the PBS affiliate that's involved with the production of a lot of those kids shows (WGBH); and sadly, there are a LOT of fanatic conversative church groups and homeschool groups that have boycotted PBS before for trying to teach tolerance of homosexuality... I know, because that's why we don't have those pledge drives at my local PBS affiliate anymore, because those groups dealt a devestating blow to their pledges, their pledges dropped drastically, and they tried to make up for it by increasing the pledge minimum, but that didn't help... nowadays, they only accept private funding and donations, though I know one of my colleagues has told me he wishes they could do something like that to help support children's programming again (and too, he was instrumental in shaping a lot of the facets of Steve D'Monster's personality).

Evencable children's shows have attempted to have some sort o f gay inclusion and have gotten in trouble for it, like the banned Cow and Chicken episode where Cow joins a motorcycle gang called the Buffalo Gals, composed entirely of huge masculine butch women who randomly bursts into people's homes, and chews on their carpets (wink-wink).

Sadly, homosexuality is not seen by the "public" as being "family-friendly", even Johnny Weir has been on the short end of that stick... the last I've heard, the Archie comics were planning on adding an openly gay character to their cast, not sure if that's worked out for them or not, but then again, I really don't know of anybody (other than Drtooth maybe) who actually reads Archie Comics.

I'm so glad you brought up the history of difficult topics in children's entertainment along with the inclusion of Sesame's nixed divorce episode. That's exactly where this discussion should have started. I guess the absurdity of the recent petition obscured a much more interesting conversation. Thanks for bringing that back.

It is tough and there are a lot of groups waiting to find an excuse to pounce on such programs. I still think it can be done. As mentioned it has been done when considering that many out gay celebrities have appeared on Sesame Street. I still think assigning the lifestyle label confuses some folk by painting an ambiguous picture of what life is really like. Gay couples are very much like straight couples. They're just of the same sex and face more prejudice. There's an epic conspiracy to hide it from me if there's anything more interesting than that.

Wow! You know about Kevin Keller! He's an out gay character in Archie Comics that recently became popular enough to carry his own branded comic along with being a recurring character in the regular Archie universe:

I hope this helps others become more tolerant in accepting the differences of others even if they don't agree with them. ​