Bert and Ernie Gay Rumor: Settled

[RedPiggy]

Studying film as long as I have, I noticed there was a celebration of gay characters even when it wasn't explicitly stated.

I didn't realize it was ever mentioned (except for "funny uncles" or whatever). And then I saw The Children's Hour with Audrey Hepburn and I was like O_O "OMG ... that was ... actually worth watching!" For those that don't know, imagine The Crucible but with gay themes (I guess you'd have to know The Crucible, too, huh? It's a witch hunt story ... literally and figuratively).

 

[Drtooth]

I kind of think of Bert and Ernie as ageless adults, with Ernie being sort of a man-child, like Pee-wee.

Though, PeeWee was attracted to Miss Yvonne. At least, that's what I remember.

Yeah I've never thought of Bert and Ernie as children. Clearly they're sharing an apartment like adults do in the city. Bert travels alone to visit his brother. They're obviously adults.

Though, the other thing is there is no way Grover can be under the age of 16 to have all those jobs. Ours is not to question why and try to explain everything. We like the idea of origins and explanations, but they ruin the magic. I'm gonna have to side with John K and what he said about the Chipmunks... it was funnier and wackier when they didn't explain why a grown man had 4 foot talking Chipmunks living with him. Some explanations make things better and more dramatic (Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck), some explanations just take the fun out of something. Muppets don't NEED explanation. Look what happened when they said "Gonzo's an alien." Even the Muppeteers themselves denounce it.

To me, at worst Ernie and Bert are brothers who were somehow abandoned by their mother, leaving Bert to grow up fast to take care of his little brother Ernie, who is stuck in a phase of childhood to ease the pain and...

YEEECHHHH!!! That's too depressing. Forget I ever said that. Bleh.

I do like how the Rudd/Rogen/Hill/Cera/Eisenberg films have made it ok to be openly sensitive; for too long males have been forced to think they can't be expressive or sensitive

Yeah, and we have to buy big old gas guzzling macho cars, or they question your sexuality. And if they didn't, they wouldn't sell big old gas guzzling macho cars.
There is so much engrained in the male brain/male DNA that goes to extremes to assert their masculinity. That's one of the reasons for so much gang violence. because the only male role models are other gang members. Someone has to go out there and say that it's okay not to be Rambo.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Though, the other thing is there is no way Grover can be under the age of 16 to have all those jobs

They talked about this on TP. Sometimes Grover's an adult with a job, other times (mainly in the books), he's a kid going to Pre-school, lol.

The Celluloid Closet documentary kind of goes over this

I saw that documentary at The Paley Center. Fascinating look at that aspect of film history. People don't realize that there were gay characters even in the silent film days. Everyone just assumes "they didn't do that back then."

 

[D'Snowth]

Though, PeeWee was attracted to Miss Yvonne. At least, that's what I remember.

BUT, in Pee-wee's Big Adventure, he wanted to avoid any kind of advances Dottie (E.G. Daily) made towards him, because of "cooties"... plus, there was Paul Reuben's scandal several years ago when he was caught gratifying himself in an adult movie theater, which we all know that stereotype (post the famous Seinfeld episode, that is), that if you do THAT, you MUST be gay. Of course, there's actually a Christian-based study on the subject that suggests if you do THAT, then God sees you as being very lonely, and need to find that someone you're meant to marry.

 

[Drtooth]

Of course, there's actually a Christian-based study on the subject that suggests if you do THAT, then God sees you as being very lonely, and need to find that someone you're meant to marry.

I don't want to talk about that, but that's why religion and science are incompatible in very specific instances. Marriage is NOT for everyone. That's why so many of them end in divorce. And finding a woman to pair up with is easier said than done. Finding anyone to pair up with is easier said than done. But getting caught in a porno theater ...uh... well, that's what home video is for and why theatrical stuff died out. Thank Frog his career bounced back from that.

But that was his real life persona. Pee Wee was a character the same way that the Blues Brothers were characters that were played by someone. Plus, the movie seems to be sort of different from the TV show. I mean, Chairy and all the rest weren't there.

 

[D'Snowth]

Plus, the movie seems to be sort of different from the TV show. I mean, Chairy and all the rest weren't there.

Well, the TV show came after the movie, so, yeah.

 

[CensoredAlso]

BUT, in Pee-wee's Big Adventure, he wanted to avoid any kind of advances Dottie (E.G. Daily) made towards him, because of "cooties"...

Yeah but in the cirucs movie, he's engaged to one girl at the beginning and then ends up with a different girl at the end, lol.

 

[beaker]

Yeah, and we have to buy big old gas guzzling macho cars, or they question your sexuality. And if they didn't, they wouldn't sell big old gas guzzling macho cars.
There is so much engrained in the male brain/male DNA that goes to extremes to assert their masculinity. That's one of the reasons for so much gang violence. because the only male role models are other gang members. Someone has to go out there and say that it's okay not to be Rambo.

I've always felt closer to the Pee Wee/Ernest/Big Bang Theory/Depp in Pirates/Jon Cryer side of un-masculinity which some may confuse with being gay(I say well if I was born to like guys I'd be open about it, I just happened to be programmed to like girls who want nothing of it!) So when I get talked into going with friends or coworkers to bro(word for alpha males I guess) culture dance clubs or shows, I feel very uncomfortable. And not just because I dont have big arms or a big chest. But these guys see women as nothing but empty vessels of conquest, have to ALWAYS exude their alpha male tough guy side("hey, what, you wanna go some?"), etc Sadly way too many servile women are programmed to exclusively fawn over that. So again, thank GOODNESS for Cera, Eisenberg and Hill. But yeah tough guy male culture is color blind. I see and sometimes run into alpha male jerks that are white, hispanic, indian, black, persian, arab, russian/ukrainian/eastern european, southeast asian. They all act the same

 

[beaker]

Some people confuse asexuality like behavior with being gay. Like the character of Sheldon on Big Bang Theory, or Pee Wee for instance. Bert, Ernie and Grover represent that sort of innocent asexuality, while The Count, Pepe, etc typify womanizing horn-doggedness.

It's truly sad Paul Ruebens career was destroyed from that strange event. I don't think he ever bounced back career wise, other than the public came back to really appreciate what had been lost and support his current ventures(Saw the new HBO broadway special, such an interesting time warp into vintage pee wee) I liked him in Blow, and wish he had done more drama and comedy roles. He's a bit old now, though he still rocks the Pee Wee thing pretty well still.

One issue is that companies have used characters being gay as merely a punchline, a schtick. Smithers on the Simpsons, Roger the alien on American Dad. It's just a sight gag to them. And while Modern Family's gay couple often involves ruses revolving around some of that, they're treated like any other dysfunctional couple on the show. Networks have tried this before, like John Goodman in Normal Ohio. But often gay characters are treated as a zippy one liner charactiture

 

[D'Snowth]

When was Ernest ever perceived as gay? In the commercials, he's got a wife whose refered to, but never seen (Edna), plus, in just about all of his movies, he's got a thing for the leading lady.

But you know, watching classic Looney Tunes today, I'm reminded of something else that's been a source of comedy for eons: cross-dressing. How many times has Bugs fooled Elmer by dressing up as a lady, that Elmer instantly has the hots for? And for what? Comedy, pure and simple. In fact, a famous comedian of yesteryears tried to get a discharge from the Navy by running around dressed as a WAVE to make people think he was crazy (which inspired the character of Corporal Klinger on M*A*S*H, who ran around in dresses toget out of the Army). What do people of today have to say about that one?