Redeeming Villains in Stories - Right or Wrong?

[CensoredAlso]

That sounds like something the parent of a bully would say. That's far more harmful to kids than any cartoon dodo.

It also reminds me of one of those sports parents who just keeps drilling "Win, win, win!" into their kids' heads, lol. Of course we'll never get his side of the story. His intentions were probably good but, yeah, there are worse things to worry about than a cartoon bird, lol.

Though considering this guy's attitude toward Dodos, I bet he loved Follow That Bird! Lol

 

[Drtooth]

Sounds like the guy's a self hating Dodo!

 

[CensoredAlso]

Sounds like the guy's a self hating Dodo!

I can just imagine this guy watching Follow That Bird in the theater: "That's it, Big Bird! Stick it to those loser Dodos!"

 

[D'Snowth]

Here's another something interesting to think about...

We're all familiar with the Home Alone movies, right? In the first one, Harry and Marv (played to perfection by Joe Pesci and Danny Stern) were house burglars, who took advantage of a neighborhood where practically everyone traveled far away for the holidays, and were going to stop at nothing at robbing Kevin's house, no matter how bad they got the crap beat out of them. In the second one, they busted out of jail during a prison riot, fled to NYC, and planned on pulling a heist against the city's finest toy store, where the manager planned to donate all of the proceeds to the local children's hospital, and once again, they were willing to get the crap beat out of them to try and take Kevin out of action.

Doesn't sound like they ever redeemed themselves, right? Well, here's a little bit of trivia: according to director Chris Columbus, he said filmmaker John Hughes wrote a draft for Home Alone 3 that was never sold... in this draft, Harry and Marv DID redeem themselves. The plot was that Harry and Marv went straight, and moved into a quiet suburb, meanwhile Kevin suddenly becomes like a terminator and goes in hunt of them to take them down.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Doesn't sound like they ever redeemed themselves, right? Well, here's a little bit of trivia: according to director Chris Columbus, he said filmmaker John Hughes wrote a draft for Home Alone 3 that was never sold... in this draft, Harry and Marv DID redeem themselves. The plot was that Harry and Marv went straight, and moved into a quiet suburb, meanwhile Kevin suddenly becomes like a terminator and goes in hunt of them to take them down.

Hmm...was he trying to get out of the franchise or something? Hehe

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Doesn't sound like they ever redeemed themselves, right? Well, here's a little bit of trivia: according to director Chris Columbus, he said filmmaker John Hughes wrote a draft for Home Alone 3 that was never sold... in this draft, Harry and Marv DID redeem themselves. The plot was that Harry and Marv went straight, and moved into a quiet suburb, meanwhile Kevin suddenly becomes like a terminator and goes in hunt of them to take them down.

Wow- glad that version was never made. Not that I would have been against Harry and Marv getting redemption- that's a great thing. But Kevin going psycho and playing The Punisher sounds like a pretty awful storyline.
Of course, the Home Alone 3 that was made isn't all that great either- but it's still much better than the Home Alone 4 made-for-TV movie. Even though I usually like most all entries in a movie franchise for sake of completion- in this case, I just stick with the first two movies.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

And getting back to the main topic-
I think it's great to see villians experience redemption in stories. Darth Vader is certainly the best example out there and he is what makes the Star Wars movies different from other sci-fi and action/adventure movies.
Now there may be other examples, I'm sure- but this is the best one I can think of that is really well known. Many other movies focus on the hero and the protagonist- but the Star Wars movies (and I'm referring to the original three movies- though I like the prequels well enough too- they do add to the backstory) focus more on the villian. The whole storyline is really not so much about Luke's fight to restore freedom to the galaxy (although that is part of it as well)- but the underlying story that connects all the movies is the redemption of Anakin Skywalker.
This is why "Return of the Jedi" is my favorite of all the movies because we have such a clear picture of redemption. And as a Christian, it really resonates with me as a picture of the redemption Jesus offers to everyone through His death and Resurrection.
I will have to post the link later, but if you look on Youtube.com for this, you can find a great video that illustrates what I'm talking about really well. Someone did an incredible job putting together a Star Wars video set to the awesome song by Relient K, "Deathbed". That song is truly epic and it's a great picture of how Jesus can save everyone, no matter what they've done or where they've been.
And that video shows Luke as the Christ figure who continually pursues Darth Vader and shows love to him. "I won't fight you," Luke says. "I know there is still good in you."
Ultimately, when the Emperor (who easily fills the role of the devil) is killing Luke, Anakin finally steps in and kills the Emperor.
(Keep in mind-it's not a perfect picture, but generally most allegories aren't always anyway.)
And at that moment, Anakin receives redemption. I love the scene where he asks Luke to take off his mask so he can see his son with his own eyes. "But you'll die," Luke says. And Anakin tells him it's going to happen anyway at this point. And I love when Luke is telling him, "I've got to save you." Then Anakin replies, "You already have, my son."
And of course, we later see Luke burning the Darth Vader costume and we see Anakin Skywalker join the crowd of witnesses who have gone on before him- Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. And then we see Luke watching and knowing that they're there.
So yes- I love the Star Wars movies for that reason and for providing such a great picture of the redemption that Jesus came to offer.
When that's the kind of redemption we're seeing in movies, then yes- I am definitely fine with that. I think it teaches us the lesson that everyone has been given a chance for redemption and there's no one who is beyond the reach of God's grace.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Star Wars is truly one of the most moving and effecitve redemption stories in film history. And it doesn't feel forced, despite their only being three movies (Well technically the last two since that's where we really get to know Vadar's backstory). Also considering we almost never see the character's face and still feel his emotion, quite an accomplishment!

You probably noticed I didn't mention the prequels, lol. OK here's my problem with the redemption story in the prequels vs. the original films. The originals films dealt with giving into your hate and your lust for power at the expense of all others. Pretty straightforward and a classic staple of many works of literature and film.

But in the prequels, Anakin's reasons for turning to the Dark Side are convoluted and all over the place. You have him worrying about Padme. You have him agreeing with the Emperor's politics. You have him whining about the Jedi treating him like a child (and I do mean whining, lol). Then at the very, very end they try to tack on the idea of Anakin giving into his hate. There's just too many things going on, and none of them are fully fleshed out. I'm not saying a character can't have multiple motivations. But when it comes down to it, the prequels just weren't written as well as the original films. And you guys were right when you said earlier that a redemption story only works if it's written well.

 

[Drtooth]

The problem with those films is they spend WAAAAY too much time leading up to things, and certain things were resolved all too quickly. You could cut half of the first movie, and half of the second, and you got enough to go on. Plus, you'd have a third movie to explore how the heck Chewie and Han got together.

Now, They don't necessarily need to be good, but they are indeed part of the overall story. It wasn't so much about randomly deciding to turn good at the end, so much as a "Look what I've become." story. It wasn't just the Emperor that created Vader, it wasn't even just himself... Obi Wan made a huge mistake, and by training Luke he tries to atone for his role in the whole fiasco. If he listened to Yoda, NONE of this would have happened. of course, there'd be no episodes 4-6 either.

Now the third movie, I think did a very good job showing that power can corrupt (You know what Uncle Ben said to Peter Parker, so there's no point restating that there), and the Emperor started manipulating Anakin so he could be used as a tool... which of course lead to him becoming evil, which lead to him becoming a monster, which lead to the good movies. You could also say, Vader didn't just have a change of heart, but came to realize the Emperor didn't care about Vader other than having a monstrous puppet.

That said, at least the movies "stunk" as a result of the creator being an old fuddy duddy, not because a bunch of studio execs said "This needs to be more hip! Add some farts and make Vader say 'Homie' A lot!" Maybe if he had someone pinch direct for him... like ESB, the strongest film in the series.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I honestly can't even analyze the prequels very much with a straight face. I refuse to give them that kind of dignity, hehe.

The original Star Wars films said a lot with very little. The prequels had a lot but said nothing. Just my opinion.