Something that's really kinda bugged me about the Muppet/Fraggle comics

[dwmckim]

This generally applies more to the Fraggle comics though there's also been some of this with the Muppet Classics comics too, so since it's both Fraggles and Muppets - i'm posting this in "Muppet Merchandise" as opposed to the Fraggle folder...

This has kind of been a mild irritation for several months - and as each new issue comes out i see the same thing generally happening so it just continues to just pick at the sore.

It seems like whenever a new Muppet Classic series or new issue of Fraggle Rock comes out, there's the standard Muppet fansite interview with the writers and artists. This happens more with the artists than with the writers though it's happened with both - and in either case, some examples are more extreme than others but by and large there's really a rather quite disturbing (bordering on offensive) recurring theme and strong pattern...

In the inevitable interview, there's the inevitable questions regarding "what was your level of fandom/knowledge about the property beforehand" and "how did you get hired" and the answers more likely than not often are along the lines of:

"Well, I wasn't really a big fan growing up. I was aware of them, but they were just there in the background. I didn't have cable so i didn't watch them. I knew (either Tim Beedle, Joe LeFavi or some other editor or higher-up muckity-muck) because we worked together on such-and-such or knew (Beedle/LeFavi/etc) from when we did this-or-that and they suggested I work on the line. Once i got the job i ordered all the episodes off Netflex/watched the dvds/spend hours on YouTube doing research..."

In a nutshell, it almost always seems like all the people hired to write or draw the comics - regardless of how well they knew or loved the property were all essentially brought on due to having had some kind of pre-existing relationship with one of TPTB. The whole operation of artists seems to all have generated via the "it's not what you know, it's who you know" axiom.

Now i can't draw to save my life (although when i was a kid when i DID draw, it was always Muppets - i always had to throw in a Muppet in each art class project some way or other to where it became my "calling card" - but i digress) - the skill of translating images in my head to a canvas or paper with my hands was never in my artistic skillset the way acting, singing, puppetry and the performing arts have been. But if i was a really skilled artist - and i know there are a LARGE number of major Muppet Freaks who not only have the talent but took courses, somehow trained or looked toward making it more than a hobby - i would really be largely offended by this. Actually, probably because there ARE so many of the aforementioned true lifelong fanatics with training/education/skills and have had experiences like Reeves where he created something astounding that Disney won't even so much as look at or use as a glass coaster get snubbed, is why i get really irritated and put-off by this. If anyone tried to go through traditional channels, they most likely would just be ignored/rejected.

Now if the resulting project was really bad, i would be steam-eminating-from-the-ears FURIOUS. Thankfully, the writers and artists bringing us Muppet and Fraggle comics have lived up to their respective tasks but just think of how even more awesome these would be if they were coming from artists who live, eat, and breathe Muppets and Fraggles - who could draw them in their sleep due to a lifetime of experience and not having to do emergency Netflix cram sessions?

It just really grates on me and rubs me the wrong way when month after month, over and over again, i read all these interviews with people who basically say they got the honored privilage of working on the Fraggle/Muppet comics not because they love the brand or even tried to get hired or sought them out but because The Right Person knew them from something else and approached them - there's a sad and rather disgusting and insulting pattern of people hired who got there not because they had the initial desire and sought after it but were hand-picked due to an outside factor and were handed the Keys to the Kingdom.

Personally, if i was a Fraggle/Muppet lover that had an earnest genuine desire to work on the brand, i would give up any and all traditional means of submission and work on trying to become Tim Beedle's bowling buddy or Joe LeFavi's windshield wiper or flirting up a storm with them at their favorite bar (and if they were straight, doing so in drag). I love the Muppet/Fraggle comics dearly but the constant stream of revelations about how each artist was hired is really just leaving me with a sour taste in my mouth especially given how much it seems like a constant broken-record-style pattern with little variation each go-around.

 

[CensoredAlso]

If industries always waited for artists, writers and actors who were experts on a topic, they'd be waiting a long time. Previously proven artistic skill does have to take some priority. And that's not necessarily bad.

Nicholas Meyer had never watched Star Trek a day in his life. Yet he went on to write and direct Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, and write Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, arguably the most successful and beloved Star Trek motion pictures of all time. He became a true asset to the franchise and to his credit, he did his research beforehand (which was much harder back then without Netflix!).

Meyer was chosen in part because he'd recently come off a very successful film. So yes it helps to already have a reputation in the industry. And yes it can be difficult for young up and comers. But that's why it is so important to start small and build up your resume so you can begin to get noticed as well.

I will grant that not every case is a success story. Sometimes artists go ahead with a project with next to no understanding or respect for the fandom and that is frustrating. On the other hand, sometimes fans aren't able to do a project justice because they're too close to it. It really depends on the artist and the situation.

 

[beaker]

Preach it DW! I love how you aren't afraid to say what's on your mind.

A little background, I've been trying to break into the American indie comic book scene since the early 1990's. For most of the early to mid 90's, and even latter 90's I was always submitting work to companies. I was always self publishing zines I distributed in the mail, always going to comic conventions with my own art booth. I was even an early adopter in the late 90's and early 2000's with getting my artwork online via forums, artist sites, webcomics, etc.

I wasn't into super heroes. My bread and butter was stuff like Love and Rockets, The Tick, Cerebus, TMNT, Scud, Sandman, Heavy Metal Magazine, The Maxx, Too Much Coffee Man and the whole SLG/Oni/Fly Paper Press/Vertigo publishing.

Yet...never was able to break into "the biz". Maybe it was because I didn't know any of the cool people in the industry; other than the endless "keep at it kid, one day you'll make it". ****, I was invited by the lead artist on Spongebob to come hang at Nickelodeon studios in Burbank yet nothing really came of it other than some good advice and a trip to LA.

Now a few years ago by happenstance a rep at Image Comics saw my inking work and asked if I wanted to be one of the artists on the then upcoming Death Jr Playstation based comic series. Unfortunately my harddrive literally crashed a few days later, and I pretty much lost my means to work on any sort of comic.

Point being is I've gone to endless comic conventions for the better part of two decades, I've met and even known people in the comic industry. And sadly, just like the indie music and indie film scene; it's all "who you know" and politics. That's why I really look up to and respect self published folks or mavericks in the field. The Scott Mcclouds.

But yeah, I mean I know a number of very talented professional level artists on here who would do wonders with a Muppet or Henson related title. People whose dream would be to do official artwork in some sort of capacity. Heck I know I could deliver amazing Muppet comic art like noone's business.
Not sure what my point is...other than I say we all just put together our own muppet/henson related fanzine or comic, be it online or print.

 

[beaker]

Btw DW, didnt you once draw yourself like Robert Smith of the Cure? Aw, told ya I have a good memory Also, I have to give you props by keeping it 1998 old school with the Webtv thing. I actually almost exclusively posted on the old 98-99 Delphi forums via a Webtv at Sears.

You know, the idea of a super hardcore Muppet fan writing or doing illustrations for a comic or even a kid's book is intriguing. I mean, I know the average passing fan wouldn't know a snef from a scred, or the lineage of bippity bop to mahna mahna(or even be all too versed in pre Muppet Show specials or commercials) but still!

If I was to do a Muppet comic, it'd be set outside the theater. It'd star Kermit, Piggy, Gonzo, Pepe, Fozzie and Rizzo with the usual motley crew of supporting cast(Beaker, Bunsen, Chef, Sam, Carl Monster, heck even now Walter) I'd give a nod to the magic of the Muppets *outside* ala Muppets Take Manhattan or Uncle Matt's segments; but incorporate elements not seen in past Muppet productions. I'd definitely be generous with the cameos, particularly Jim Henson Hour or more obscure stuff.

 

[Drtooth]

Point being is I've gone to endless comic conventions for the better part of two decades, I've met and even known people in the comic industry. And sadly, just like the indie music and indie film scene; it's all "who you know" and politics. That's why I really look up to and respect self published folks or mavericks in the field. The Scott Mcclouds.

You summed up exactly what I could have said. Even with smaller, slightly more independent companies like Boom, there's always the "Hey, would you like to work on this?" factor. Though, didn't Boom discover Dave Alverez, that guy who did Muppet fan comics on deviant art, later to go onto drawing covers and issue 1 of King Arthur?

The problem is thus... for every one of the highly polished fans who are trying to break into the business, there are lousy fanboys/girls with no discernible talent that pester the heck out of everyone and RUIN it for the lot of us.

As for that dude that painted that nothing short of amazing photorealistic bit with the Muppets in a movie theater? He made a big mistake, and here it is. If there's one thing I learned, it's that you NEVER EVER EVER go to the company that owns the copyright with their copyrighted characters. Let's say you want to write for the Simpsons... you have to provide sample scripts for anything BUT the Simpsons, because they'd be easier to pick it apart, AND they'd regard it as a worthless piece of fan fiction. If you want to illustrate for a certain company, you need a portfolio full of everything in the world that they don't. He would have had a better chance at getting an illustration career at Disney if he had Hanna Barbera characters or Bugs Bunny in those seats.

Aside from that it IS all a business, it is politics. Plus, if you have people on staff, you will favor them over newcomers. Though, I sympathize with Heidi Arnold in her interview. FR would have reached more of an audience had the darn thing not been on a premium HBO channel. She was still a Sesame Street fan, so at least she had some Muppets in her roots.

Now, I've been saying this for a while. Suppose Marvel or someone else picked up the Muppet license... things would be worse. We'd have nothing BUT staff writers and artists, and we'd be lucky that if they even desired to watch the shows on Netflix for research. I say this all the time, but I've read sklipshod, poor looking and poorly written comics based on TV shows and cartoons and stuff. You can tell the Marvel Fraggle Rock staff didn't get it, and just started copying episodes of the series. Though, Marie Severin (the artist) proclaimed her love for Henson in a short interview. But a lot of those Star comics just had staff people who didn't know or care about the licenses, and wrote everything as generic as possible. I'm torn about the Duckula comic they made... sometimes they genuinely get the idea, sometimes they just said "Ah, veggie vampire! Got it!"

Above all, the only time I really had a problem with the art WAS Muppet Robin Hood, but I still say that was pressure to look exactly like the Roger comics. And Roger and Amy at least were massive fans (if anything, the classic era)... Really, with Roger, I've NEVER seen anyone capture the spirit of a show so well.

 

[dwmckim]

Btw DW, didnt you once draw yourself like Robert Smith of the Cure? Aw, told ya I have a good memory Also, I have to give you props by keeping it 1998 old school with the Webtv thing. I actually almost exclusively posted on the old 98-99 Delphi forums via a Webtv at Sears.

Well well well - you DID remember something i had totally forgotten about but not completely. It wasn't something i drew but rather a friend drew a picture of Robert Smith that looked like RS as a Muppet. As per the webtv, it isn't a conscious choice to remain old school - just an extreme poverty choice (can't afford new gadgets). If i had the financial means to have a nice computer that's nice and fast and can watch YT clips without having to visit the library to do so, access things that webtv doesn't currently get along with like Delphi, Ebay, Paypal, etc, i would!

I get what Heralde says about wanting to bring aboard established pros and/or people you already know can deliver, but still there should be more a balance. The whole thing wouldn't bother me so much if we heard more tales of people who when asked how they got hired said, "I've always been a lifelong Fraggle fan so i submitted my work and while it was a long harrowing very competitive process that had to go through several people, i got approved to do the job i always knew i was born to do" as opposed to, "well, i'm a friend of Tim Beedle so we asked me to draw this thing" ad nauseum.

 

[Drtooth]

I get what Heralde says about wanting to bring aboard established pros and/or people you already know can deliver, but still there should be more a balance. The whole thing wouldn't bother me so much if we heard more tales of people who when asked how they got hired said, "I've always been a lifelong Fraggle fan so i submitted my work and while it was a long harrowing very competitive process that had to go through several people, i got approved to do the job i always knew i was born to do" as opposed to, "well, i'm a friend of Tim Beedle so we asked me to draw this thing" ad nauseum.

I'd tend to think seasoned Muppet fans with their own comics may be able to get into the negotiations process. Though, I still wish Dave would come back and tell us exactly the details of how he got into doing covers and King Arthur. Again, I've heard tales, and they all point to not being able to start on a dream project of theirs. Especially if they just submit that character or property... that's pretty much inviting disappointment.

It seems more along the lines with Archaia, they are getting people on staff, though some ARE on other Henson projects. I'm wondering what kind of support we'd get if we could do an online comic series, ala Sonic the Comic online (talk about devoted... keeping a cult classic UK version of the character and his comic books alive). I really wanted to do a Sesame the Comic type thing, but I just don't have the tools or the website to start one up. plus, I'd have to establish very specific rules about the quality of artwork and the stories.

 

[beaker]

Oh yeah! I forgot about Dave Alverez! I remember when he was posting his own versions of Muppet strips. I'm glad he got hired on, and I love seeing examples of Muppet fans getting hired into some form of the industry(be it toys, merchandise, writing, or even with JHC and Disney)

Well shoot, I'm game to at least do some test Muppet pages or a few webcomic strips just for the fun of it. I'd love to see other people's take. I haven't really kept up on the art portion of this site for fan art, but I'm sure theres a lot of great artists and great writers who could be paired with artists.

Also, I LOVE Muppet illustrated kids books...be it the 1978 muppet show illustrated, the Fraggle Rock books, etc. I'd love to see new Muppet kids books made.

 

[Drtooth]

There is nothing stopping anyone from Fan arts and fan strips. I'm not saying you'll be discovered, but fan content (as long as it's tasteful) can keep things going.

I would have so started up a Sesame The Comic Online somewhere, but I don't have the proper equipment, nor a web site.