The Bible and Love and Christians

[GonzoLeaper]

Maybe this relationship thing is why you can almost hear certain apostles in your head without reading the bible and the others are just random noise in recollection, and why there is a clear effort to get rid of "problem" females, like both MM AND Mary the Mother of Jesus (remember, she wasn't exactly thrilled with Adult Jesus ... the magic of His birth must not have carried over to His frequent misbehaviors and His adult ministry that must have resulted in way too many death threats than she cared to deal with).

Where does it ever say that Mary was not thrilled with Jesus as an adult in The Bible? I don't see any effort to get rid of "problem" females. What's the deal with Mary Magdalene? She was one of the first to see the Resurrected Christ and entrusted with the message to go tell His brothers about it. What frequent misbehaviors are you referring to? Jesus never sinned because He's God.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

While I understand the argument justifying his single status, it's just a tough idea to accept. I throw that on the pile of many other reasons the Bible just doesn't ring true to me. Still, I can and do respect that others feel differently and stake their lives on their faith.

Thank you for that. I think many Christians would get offended by the idea that Jesus was married and had kids is mainly because it would imply that Jesus was like any other man who did the normal routine of getting married, having kids and so forth. Thus, it would be sacreligious to undermine the divinity of Jesus in any form. Obviously, for those who don't accept Jesus as God then that speculation would be natural. Anyway- that's just my ideas on the "why" of that subject. It's something I may like to research further though.

 

[CensoredAlso]

The ironic thing is that a lot of Christianity's optimism stems from Plato, who was a pagan Greek. The whole reason a lot of Christians believe in a "Perfect" God (read: One who never does anything icky), Perfect Forms, etc is that Plato put it in the minds of Greeks, who later brought the academic baggage into Christianity.

I honestly haven't studied Plato since college, lol, but I think all religions have been influenced by each other one way or the other. It's inevitable. But I don't think it was only Plato. Jesus also introduced the idea of a loving God who was like a parent. And even before that, Abraham learns that God isn't the type to demand a human sacrifice.

Well you know what they say, success has many fathers.

I don't see any effort to get rid of "problem" females. What's the deal with Mary Magdalene? She was one of the first to see the Resurrected Christ and entrusted with the message to go tell His brothers about it.

Yeah I agree, I don't understand the claim that she was gotten rid of. The fact that the Bible has a woman deliver the news of Jesus' resurrection is actually quite impressive because women were not usually considered all that reliable.

 

[RedPiggy]

I honestly haven't studied Plato since college, lol, but I think all religions have been influenced by each other one way or the other. It's inevitable. But I don't think it was only Plato.

Of course.

Jesus also introduced the idea of a loving God who was like a parent.

He also got that from the OT. OT God and NT God aren't THAT different. The OT God is just as forgiving and loving (after all, He never struck A&E dead nor did He kill off Cain, the first murderer) and the NT God can have His "bad mood" days as well.

The fact that the Bible has a woman deliver the news of Jesus' resurrection is actually quite impressive because women were not usually considered all that reliable.

At least two gospels mention that hardly anyone believed her, simply 'cause she was a woman, though. Jesus even gripes about it in Mark, though the longer ending seems to have some authorship issues. Mark 16

 

[CensoredAlso]

He also got that from the OT

Well I did mention the OT Abraham story as well if you recall.

At least two gospels mention that hardly anyone believed her, simply 'cause she was a woman, though. Jesus even gripes about it in Mark, though the longer ending seems to have some authorship issues. Mark 16

Right, but the fact that the Bible is showing the women to be right is what's impressive for that time.

 

[frogboy4]

two questions

It seems like every little thing Jesus did that went against the religious norm in his time was singled out by some pious naysayer in the Bible so why wouldn't his lack of family be noted? A man of his age without a wife and children would have been widely seen as some sort of insult to God. I completely understand the logic behind why he wouldn't have a family, but the fact that any reference to his situation, no matter if he was single, married or gay, is absent makes me suspicious to the church's ulterior motives and the legitimacy of the Bible as a whole.

Then again, why is it okay for Jesus to be human for the sake of saving sins and not okay for him to actually be a human being in every sense of it. If he's the bridge between God and man then why the need for more separation? I think it boils down to the uncomfortable idea that Jesus didn't die a virgin. But hey, who knows?

 

[RedPiggy]

And, really, who says He couldn't have died a virgin even WITH a wife? He can turn water into wine but can't pull off parthenogenesis with His wife?

 

[CensoredAlso]

It seems like every little thing Jesus did that went against the religious norm in his time was singled out by some pious naysayer in the Bible so why wouldn't his lack of family be noted? A man of his age without a wife and children would have been widely seen as some sort of insult to God.

Well wait, someone else might know this better than me, do the religious sect leaders like the Pharisees in Jesus' community have families?

 

[frogboy4]

Well wait, someone else might know this better than me, do the religious sect leaders like the Pharisees in Jesus' community have families?

I think everybody did. It wasn't until the 11th century that the Catholic Church enforced celibacy for clergy.

I still think something about Jesus' lack of marriage or family would have been mentioned as it would have been out of the ordinary and require some sort of explanation to his disciples. Having a family wouldn't necessarily have been noteworthy at that time. Well, at least not the wife. Wives commonly get the short stick in the Bible. No doubt they did a lot of the day-to-day heavy lifting in their family unit, but receive no mention as if they're supposed to be some sort of invisible butler or servant. Thank God for the 21st century!

 

[CensoredAlso]

Thank God for the 21st century!

The 21st century in America anyway.

I still think something about Jesus' lack of marriage or family would have been mentioned as it would have been out of the ordinary and require some sort of explanation to his disciples.

I was reading this essay on belief.net on the topic. It acknowledges that unmarried men were considered unusual during that time (though not completely nonexistant). In the end, it speculates that Jesus' apparent lack of family went along with his whole gospel of leaving the world for the sake of preparing yourself for the next life:

Some people, Jesus explains, choose to be celibate “for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (v. 12). To put it differently, some people might choose to devote all that they are to proclaiming and living out God’s kingdom. They would find earthly responsibilities, such as those that go with marriage and parenting, a hindrance to their kingdom calling. This is similar to the situation of the disciples who were called away from their professions (fishermen, tax collectors, etc.) in order to follow Jesus with singular purpose.

To be fair, I don't think it's completely impossible that evidence of Jesus' family could have been hidden overtime. The Bible was heavily edited over the years. So it's not impossible. It's just that it always feels like the classic conspiracy theory and I don't tend to give much credence to those without more proof. Reality is usually more boring than people imagine.