The Bible and Love and Christians

[frogboy4]

But what about athiests who have prejudices (they do exist), where does that come from? Not trying to be rude, just continuing the conversation.



There's no stalemate, obviously human beings created the Christian Bible. The authors were human and by the way, so was Jesus.

Religion is one of the excuses people use to discriminate. It seems to be one of the largest reasons, but it's certainly not the only one. Prejudice is also rooted in personal discomfort with the foreign and the unknown. Human nature is imperfect, but I do believe that most people want to do good and be good to one another. Sometimes we fall to the darker side of our nature.

Of course the Bible was actually written by human beings, however Christians believe the content is divinely inspired directly from God. I don't hold this belief neither do I believe in the immaculate conception. I also think a lot of societal and personal prejudice has made its way into Biblical text. The basic message of renewal is beautiful and there are some good stories and parables. I just don't live my life by it.

Christians believe that all goodness and love originates from God, but I think it's built-into all of us. I think we respectfully disagree on this point.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Christians believe that all goodness and love originates from God, but I think it's built-into all of us. I think we respectfully disagree on this point.

I don't disagree at all. But why is it built into us? That was my question from before. I'm not trying to prove anything, just honestly asking, how does it end up that we're inherently good and have the same basic ideal of what that means?

I also think a lot of societal and personal prejudice has made its way into Biblical text.

They also have found their way into secular societies, just as badly. It's not religion that's the culprit, it's people. Take away religion and I guarantee we'll still have the same prejudices.

The basic message of renewal is beautiful and there are some good stories and parables.

Actually as a Christian, I think those things are ultimately more important than whether you believe in a book or a miraculous birth. To paraphrase South Park, God doesn't want you to spend all day praising his name, he wants you to live your life and enjoy it with others.

And yes I said South Park, they're amazing insightful.

 

[frogboy4]

I don't disagree at all. But why is it built into us? That was my question from before. I'm not trying to prove anything, just honestly asking, how does it end up that we're inherently good and have the same basic ideal of what that means?

I don't know why it is, but I don't know why it wouldn't be either. It's the age-old "glass half full/empty" debate. I prefer the former and my life experiences seem to support it. That's not to say everyone I've met is good, of course.

They also have found their way into secular societies, just as badly. It's not religion that's the culprit, it's people. Take away religion and I guarantee we'll still have the same prejudices.

Possibly it's because I have a cold and haven't been as clear as usual, but this is exactly what I've been saying. Many people (religious and non-religious folk) are prejudice for many reasons, but one of the most popular excuses people use is their religion. I think we agree here.

Actually as a Christian, I think those things are ultimately more important than whether you believe in a book or a miraculous birth. To paraphrase South Park, God doesn't want you to spend all day praising his name, he wants you to live your life and enjoy it with others.

And yes I said South Park, they're amazing insightful.

I agree. So many people live their lives pointlessly walking on eggshells. We're not here long enough for all that nonsense and it seems to me that not taking advantage of opportunities would be disrespectful to God.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't know why it is, but I don't know why it wouldn't be either. It's the age-old "glass half full/empty" debate. I prefer the former and my life experiences seem to support it.

Well it's just that it would seem just as logical for human beings to adopt the ideal of "be out for yourself."

Many people (religious and non-religious folk) are prejudice for many reasons, but one of the most popular excuses people use is their religion. I think we agree here.

We agree that it's one excuse. I just that I think religion tends to get a larger share of the blame and other excuses none of the blame at all. Not talking about you, just saying.

We're not here long enough for all that nonsense and it seems to me that not taking advantage of opportunities would be disrespectful to God.

Definitely we agree there.

 

[RedPiggy]

I'm not trying to prove anything, just honestly asking, how does it end up that we're inherently good and have the same basic ideal of what that means?

I think a lot of it has to do with adaptation, survival of the fittest. “A divided house cannot stand”, as it were. Societies that turn on each other go down in flames. Cooperation … makes it happen.

A random thought from yours truly:

I am a Christian. I was baptized Methodist, lived heavily influenced by Southern Baptists, and flirted with Lutherans and even a couple of cameos at Catholic services. I consider myself a progressive nondenominational Christian nowadays. I like Jesus too much to be a Jew, disagree with everyone else just enough to not bother, and really, Zen practitioners would just say all labels are illusions so conversion is rather pointless.

I also consider myself a Kermitian.

Bear with me, if you will, LOL.

I believe whole-heartedly in the Dream: make people happy. Kermit the Frog brought together all kinds of beings for a common purpose. He could be frustrated but never seemed to outright throw someone out of the Dream unless you were a hardcore villain, and even then the villains have a place in his Dream. Kermit the Frog spread ideals of education, peace, and understanding. Had Jesus been around (and Buddha, and Socrates, etc), I’d think they would have participated in the Dream too. You just simply can’t listen to the Rainbow Connection and NOT want to be a part of it, you know?

 

[GonzoLeaper]

I've been away from this thread for a while now and after reading through a number of the responses here, there have been a number of good points made.
I don't care to dredge up old posts now although there are things I could respond to, but I don't think I need to reiterate myself.
The bottom line that is worth reiterating comes down to this.
I am a Christian and by that term, I mean that I am a follower of Jesus Christ and believe Him when He said that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life in John 14:6. (It's one of my favorite verses and thus I use it as part of my signature.)
People can take The Bible at face value and believe what it says and trust that God truly divinely inspired men to write it down and that all of His Word is true. Of course, I think everyone should and that all of The Bible should be believed as literal, except for parts where it is made obvious that an allegory or parable is being told.
I believe everyone should let The Bible speak for itself and that it is its own best interpreter. And The Holy Spirit enlightens people in its reading as 1 Corinthians 2:14 makes clear that the natural man without The Spirit can't understand the things that are Spiritually discerned.
I'm well aware of and familiar with other religious texts and having compared them with Christ, what is most reasonable to me is that Jesus is who He said He is and that He is the only God.
And His death and Resurrection paid for all sins ever commited by anyone. And that only by accepting the free gift He's offered us in grace can anyone get to Heaven. I also believe that those who reject this offer will be eternally separated from God in a burning lake of fire.
Thus, it is out of obedience to Jesus per His instructions in Matthew 28:18-20 to preach The Gospel in all the world and out of love and concern for others that I share Christ's message of grace that is available. I don't want to scare anyone with any message of eternal torment, but I do want people to be aware of the gravity of the situation.
I try to do this with gentleness and respect of course, as Christ commanded. I'm sorry for any times when I fail in this. I fail in many things and many times, as I am a wretched man of sin as Romans 7 describes. But praise to Jesus Christ- He has rescued me from this! Even though I still fall sometimes, He is always there to forgive me and remind that His grace is still enough. (1 John 1:9)
All that said, I also realize that many do not agree with this stance and do not accept Christ. And that is of course their choice. I don't believe in foisting or forcing anything on anyone. And I definitely respect and love everyone, whether they agree or disagree with me because Christ loves everyone. And if I truly love and follow Him, then I should love the people He created. (Especially since He commanded it.)
And how can I be called loving toward people if I neglect to warn them about the reality of an eternal place of torment apart from God and tell them the wonderful great Good News that Jesus loves us so much that He paid for our wrongs so we would never have to go there and that through trusting Him as Savior we can go to an eternity in Heaven with Him instead?
Would you honestly not want to be told of this so you can consider it? (Note I said "told", not barraged, bombarded or bamboozled with. I get that some folks feel that it's all a lie, or a myth or misinterpretation or whatever and that they've heard it all before and are tired of hearing it. But with eternity at stake, I think it bears repeating.)
Like I said, you can choose to believe it or disregard it and that is fully your choice. I just want to make sure people truly understand what God has said and what He has done for us first, since I certainly don't want anyone to suffer eternally but rather to come to repentance and live an eternal life of happiness instead!
Yes, we all need to enjoy this current physical life that God has given us and live it the way He intended for us to do so- through loving Him with all we've got foremost and loving our neighbor as ourselves- and that includes loving our enemies and praying for them. But we also need to make sure we are prepared for eternity as well.
That is why Christians preach The Gospel so that everyone can hear. If you've heard it and believe and know Christ as Savior- Amen! That's awesome! If you've heard it and chosen not to believe or just aren't sure yet, that's your option too- I wish you would come to know Christ, but you must make your own decision.
Anyway, that's where I stand. And also let me say that no matter what anyone chooses to believe or not believe, everyone is a beautiful person made in the image of God (Ecclesiastes 3:11 and Genesis 1) and everyone is infinitely important and loved by God as He's demonstrated through Christ.
So here's to people of different beliefs and positions who are open to presenting different viewpoints with mutual love and respect and able to agree and/or disagree agreeably without slamming anyone or their beliefs. And as Tiny Tim observed, God bless us, everyone.

 

[CensoredAlso]

So here's to people of different beliefs and positions who are open to presenting different viewpoints with mutual love and respect and able to agree and/or disagree agreeably without slamming anyone or their beliefs.

Agreed, something we need more of these days.

The way I interpret "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me" is that Jesus is saying whoever follows his teachings on loving your neighbor and enemy as yourself etc, will have eternal life. So that if non-Christians do these actions, they also will have eternal life. In other words, they may not except Jesus as God, but they accept what he taught as the right way to live your life.

Christians often disagree on this and that's fine. Just wanted to add my two cents.

 

[TheMonsterAteMe]

My Newest musing..

MY LIST OF GRIEVANCE'S AGAINST THE AMERICAN CHURCH

Martin Luther is a man that a lot of us owe part of our salvation to. He changed the entire course of the Church because he saw how the Church was going completely against what the Bible say’s. He saw the preaching that you get to Heaven by works when the Bible says faith. And he could not take it anymore. So he shaped a new Church. A Church more like what he read in the Bible.

I’m not trying to be some revolutionary. I’m not trying to lead a revolution. I just want things to change. Because the American Church (as a whole) is going against the point of the Church. And I can’t take it anymore.

I meet a lot of atheist and agnostics in my walk with Christ. And instead of acting like a lot of the Church dose (which is telling them how wrong they are), I tend to try to build a relationship out of a genuine love for them. Because they are human. And they deserve love. Anyway, The subject of my walk with Christ always does seem to come up and a lot of the responses scare and upset me. I am often told of how awful they where treated by the Church. I am told horror stories and I am often forced to agree with their conclusion: The Church (as a whole) as become nothing like the image of Christ.

It has become a house of costumes. Dressing up amazing on the outside. Being brainwashed to think that you have to wear a certain thing to be acceptable in Christ's house. Our insides are never talked about, but people who don’t come in with the suit+ti or a dress on are thought to be second class citizens in a lot of places. Judging eyes **** souls for not knowing the dress codes that don't biblically exist.

It has become a place of politics. I know a lot of Christians who don’t see how anyone who does not vote purely and only Republican or Liberal are thought to be in the same boat as Satan himself. Preachers scream more about Fox News, the Tea Party, Obama, and Congress than they do about Christ when the Bible tells us not to worry and that God has the king in his hand.

It has become a place of Homophobia. While things such like pride, arrogance, and unBiblical traditions are ignored, the LGTB community get’s the blunt of the American Churches rain of ****. One of the entire points of the New Testament is missed: We are all equally screwed up (and that’s why we need the grace, love, and salvation of Christ.)

It has become a place of gossip and judgment. One of the biggest problem’s with the American church is that it has been made into a fake house of gossip that victimizes easy targets by verbally stoning them and not loving them like our Savior did. And as someone who has hurled rocks in the past and had rocks through at him.. It breaks my heart every day.

It has become a place where the Bible is taken out of context and lied about to support unBiblical traditions. We are told tattoo’s and piercings are bad. We are told that we are to look a certain way in Church. We are told certain kinds of music is bad. We are told one sip of alcohol is bad. And they never can back it up with the Bible. Only with tradition.

It has become a place where we are shown that we can ****, hate, and slander other’s just as long as we don’t “cuss” while we do it.

It was become a “G” rated, watered down show.

It has become a boring showcase of standing up and lip syncing to the Music Pastor while lifeless music plays.

It has become a place where it is wrong to question anything when we should be questioning everything.

The Church in America is not known for it’s love. It’s known for its hypocrisy. And I can’t defend it.

To quote my pastor, it has become a “museum of the saints” and not a “hospital for sinners.”

And it’s time we change this before it’s too late.

Time is running out of people! Souls are leaving bodies and going to **** all around us and we are the one’s the blame. Their blood is on our hands, Church!

I want to see this change! I want to see a new wave of Churches come with the Power of Jesus Christ at the reigns!
My heart is breaking for the condition of the things I see around me!

I am not trying to discourage you. I am trying to beg you to be the change.

Because it has to change.

 

[Bannanasketch]

Hey, TheMonsterAteMe, I just have one thing to say to that big long post: AMEN BROTHER! I am totally with you on everything you've said. I've come from several different churches that lot their view and did not keep their true priorities on God. I now go to an amazing God-lead church that is changing lives! Our preacher doesnt try to make it G-rated and watered down. He comes out and speaks on what the bible says about these "taboo" topics. I agree that some of the churches in America today are taking their eyes off of the Lord and following their own path. Amen to you for challenging that. You are doing what god has called us to do and that is to LOVE and be a witness to others. thank you for what you are doing and God bless your mission. We can all do our part and we can change this. Man, keep the faith and spread God's love.

 

[TheMonsterAteMe]

Thank's for the encouragement Bannanasketch! I'm just trying to do the right thing and the thing that God want's me to do. The above came from my blog, http://jonathanlikespotatoes.tumblr.com/
Your encouragement means so much man! Thanks! PM me if you ever need prayer of anything!

I had no idea this was so many pages.. I'll read through them tomorrow!