Does prayer actually work?

[RedPiggy]

The first thing I thought of when I read that was Doc at his workbench: "Sprockie? Have you seen that solar system? It was right next to my stave shaver..." (Doc ruffles through his tool box, tossing planets over his shoulder).

I do admit to thinking the same thing when I finally came to this conclusion.

The reason I came to this conclusion is as follows: we have no evidence (shy of some quirky quantum stuff) of creation ex nihilo (or, as I like to call it, "God: Vegas-style"). Even the bible has God create humans out of pre-existing stuff (after you fast forward through the first chapter, as it's really more of a idealistic prologue). Glaciers and undersea volcanoes have ancient bacteria still doing their thing that's been going on since they first appeared on the planet. This tells me that God keeps "back-up copies" on His hard drive so He doesn't have to bother writing code from scratch (I love the "universe as a Sim game" motif). In just about every ancient religion, we all come from "something". As science seems to agree, I figure God is more of a "tinkerer".

Ever seen a platypus?

And the amusing thing is, in ancient Greek mythology, WE'RE the "leftovers".

That's what I believe. As for prayer, sometimes it's worked for me, and sometimes I don't get what I asked for.

Me too. After two months, I've come to the conclusion (very, VERY reluctantly) that I've basically been fired by being left to dangle helplessly. So, it is on to a new job search. I wanted so bad to get back to my job. However, if I were truly honest with myself, it never would have worked in the long-term anyway. It was very hard on my body. There are so many residents in the long-term care environment that it's next to impossible to do every single thing required of you. So, while I'm rather depressed about how things turned out, I have to remember that "everything in life is only for now".

 

[Drtooth]

The main reason is because of my experiences with prayer. During the times when i've been at my lowest and have prayed for help, things typically always got worse. It got to the point where either i had to somehow reconcile there being a supreme being that really was that cruel and delighted in my torment or to not believe in anything at all - the latter option was much preferable to the former. When i think of religion/prayer, i get the metaphor in my mind of falling down a huge deep hole in the ground and begging for help only to be given a ladder covered with thorns which you attempt to climb and when almost out and have your hands on the ledge, God gleefully tap dances on your hands with stiletto heels, kicks you off the ladder and back down the hole and takes away the ladder leaving you not only back where you started but with numerous broken bones, no way out and laughing at your misery. Just like in the Depeche Mode song "Blasphemous Rumours" ("I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours/But i think that God has a sick sense of humor/And when I die I expect to find him laughing")

That's it EXACTLY! Perfectly exactly. But on the other hand, I don't think i could ever become a real atheist. No one... NO one could screw up all this stuff alone. Things work a LITTLE too perfect against me (and I'm sure there are others) to ignore that something somewhere fishy is going on. Really, my mother used to say, "The whole world doesn't revolve around you." Yes, it revolves against me. I hope this doesn't sound any more malicious than I'm making it. But really, things work out in a sick Charlie Brown/O'Henry way for me.

Now i also have believed at times in spirituality vs religion and have bought into the notion of a universal subconscious which essentially serves the same functions/ideas as prayer - this idea though hardly not new has received a major "rebirth" in the form of "The Secret" craze. But again - been there, done that, got the tshirt - it gave me a rash.

Goodness knows, I TRY to be positive, and I rarely get anything bigger than the occasional discounted toy I don't really need. If that crap actually worked, I'd have a cartoon production company now instead of having an unpopular fan art page on Deviantart. Sometimes you have to go out and get the stuff done yourself... and in my case, going back to what I said earlier, things ALWAYS manage to work against me no matter WHAT happens. Again, i hope this doesn't sound worse than I'm trying to get my point across, but I am VERY frustrated with how things go.

 

[MartyMuppets]

Snowthy I just want to say that I'm very sad about the situation regarding you because you were one of the very first friends I made here. I ask you to please seriously consider what Claudia has said. I admit I don't know what the full situation is because I am on the other side of the world and can only hear yours and Claudia's sides of the story and I don't want to take sides because I've always liked both you and Claudia.

Even if MC has lost the standards it had back when you and I first joined, continuing to vent out about what you see as an injustice to you will only add to the tension. If we really want MC to change for the better, the first place we need to start with is ourselves.

Snowth I'd be very sad to see you banned permanently. I say to you please let it drop and think about what Claudia has said. I don't know who's in the right like I said, but please you know in your heart what the truth of the matter is and please take it to God and ask Him to cleanse you of whatever wrongful attitudes you need to repent of. Please if you keep this up you'll be banned for certain.

And Claudia I want to say I don't want to be on bad terms with you either. We always used to get on so well together and I know you are a nice person and you wouldn't have said anything against Snowth without reason.
Snowthy I really believe God is telling me that you need to seriously pray about this matter. I'm not judging you my friend. I don't know the full facts and in any case it is not my business to pass judgement on others. However as a Christian Brother and friend I beg you not to bear a grudge whether you're right or wrong and to keep praying for God to direct you the way you must go for your own good.

 

[frogboy4]

I still don't see what standards have lapsed in the forum since I started lurking in '99. There must be things happening in groups or cliques that have arisen through the years that I am not aware of. If anything the forum has been opening up to all members since 2002 and not only those following a particular path or religion. We've also advanced to being able to participate in mature (but still PG-13 rated) discussions that were once thought to alienate the younger members.

I'm mostly here for Muppet talk - particularly The Muppet Show, Muppet movies and Muppet products, but some of these peripheral threads help me connect and forge friendships of greater understanding with fellow MCers.

Personally, I’m a gay agnostic. While I do believe in a greater power I don’t believe that God is interested in petty prejudices so that pretty rules out Biblical text as word-for-word truth in my book, but I do respect that others do believe and that faith improves their lives. I’m all for it and I do still pray, but for personal growth and inner peace rather than material or personal gain.

I don’t think anyone should be singled out for ridicule. Ultimately it’s not about what we believe, but how we treat one another. It’s never too late to be kind.

 

[ryhoyarbie]

This topic I created wasn't intended to bring drama or start some sort of fire or blood bath.....If you want that, go read the comments from all the users on yahoo news on various topics, mostly on the political discussions that seem to be a hopeless cause for those who keep on shouting odd things just to make a point. Sorry for those who might be offended....I wanted to bring in a topic that normally isn't here on muppet central.

That being said, nothing bad as happened yet.....

I can't say I'm a religious person. In my personal opinion things just happen for a reason and I'm not for sure if prayer can help someone like me.....I guess it can help someone....But I also think talking to someone also helps so you can speak to someone, vent your problems, etc.

As for the whole God thing, perhaps the being is real or perhaps the being is made up. Maybe someone long ago saw humanity as a reckless people who needed some light and guidance and decided to create someone who was all powerful.

However, the bottom line is I don't know, but neither does anyone else. I respect other's opinions on religion to a certain extent before they raise my eyebrows on some of their ideas and or ways of thinking.

 

[Drtooth]

Ever seen a platypus?

CURSE YOU PERRY ZE PLATYPUS!

Yeah. Come on... like I'm going to resist that!

 

[Yorick]

That's it EXACTLY! Perfectly exactly. But on the other hand, I don't think i could ever become a real atheist. No one... NO one could screw up all this stuff alone. Things work a LITTLE too perfect against me (and I'm sure there are others) to ignore that something somewhere fishy is going on. Really, my mother used to say, "The whole world doesn't revolve around you." Yes, it revolves against me. I hope this doesn't sound any more malicious than I'm making it. But really, things work out in a sick Charlie Brown/O'Henry way for me.

Goodness knows, I TRY to be positive, and I rarely get anything bigger than the occasional discounted toy I don't really need. If that crap actually worked, I'd have a cartoon production company now instead of having an unpopular fan art page on Deviantart. Sometimes you have to go out and get the stuff done yourself... and in my case, going back to what I said earlier, things ALWAYS manage to work against me no matter WHAT happens. Again, i hope this doesn't sound worse than I'm trying to get my point across, but I am VERY frustrated with how things go.

As for bad luck, I know it well too (I don't want to explain - but trust me lol I'm not whining about nothing or being all "woe is me")...but it's strange, I still can't bring myself to think there's anything cosmic going on against me (unless I quote the song "Bad Karma" by Warren Zevon that asks, "Was it something I did in another life?"). So I still chalk it down to coincidence - just one coincidence I loathe after another, at times. But sometimes it can really seem like something else is going on, indeed.

 

[Yorick]

I don’t think anyone should be singled out for ridicule. Ultimately it’s not about what we believe, but how we treat one another. It’s never too late to be kind.

I know my comment is a cliche, but really - if everyone would follow the beautiful words you just wrote there, the world would have no problems...we'd have heaven on earth.

 

[Drtooth]

As for bad luck, I know it well too (I don't want to explain - but trust me lol I'm not whining about nothing or being all "woe is me")...but it's strange, I still can't bring myself to think there's anything cosmic going on against me (unless I quote the song "Bad Karma" by Warren Zevon that asks, "Was it something I did in another life?"). So I still chalk it down to coincidence - just one coincidence I loathe after another, at times. But sometimes it can really seem like something else is going on, indeed.

Oh ho ho! Things work a little too well to be co-incidental. Turned me into George Costanza for one thing. I'm not really a "woe is me" guy so much as I am a "I wanna BREAK something" guy.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

To answer the question of the thread, yes- prayer works.
I say this as a Christian who has seen God move and change things. However, prayer is not like rubbing on Aladdin's lamp and asking the Genie to do our every bidding and we shouldn't treat it as such. God is not obligated to do anything for us- but He chooses to because He loves us. Of course, The Bible says that if we have sin in our lives, He won't hear our prayers. So this is another factor to consider. But when we know Christ as Savior, He says He will listen to our prayers. The Bible says Jesus is constantly interceding for us with God the Father on our behalf. The Holy Spirit expresses groans that we don't even realize- there are some prayers where we may not even know what to say, but the Holy Spirit expresses them for us.
Prayer works because God works. It's not about how much faith you have but rather Who your faith is in.
Jesus talks a lot about prayer in the Sermon on the Mount. And I really like how frogboy4 put it here-

I’m all for it and I do still pray, but for personal growth and inner peace rather than material or personal gain.

Definitely. We shouldn't be so focused on material and personal gain in prayer. If we look at The Lord's Prayer that Jesus gave us in Matthew 6:9-13, we can see how He models prayer. And it's all about putting God and His kingdom first and seeking His help in faithfully following Him and trusting Him to provide for our needs- not for all our wants.
Certainly we can pray for God to save the life of someone dying and to heal other physical ailments. But God always answers prayer with a couple of answers- either a yes, no or wait. And we don't always understand His plans and why things don't go the way we prayed for them to be. That's where faith in Christ comes in to say that I trust Him to know what's best and follow Him anyway.
This has been my experience and I know I've seen God prove to be faithful over and over again even when I've been unfaithful. I'm thankful that God invites us to commune with Him in prayer. He knows our needs already but prayer gives us an opportunity to express all our concerns, worries and fears to Him- and leave them there. The prayer of a righteous man is effective. (James 5:16)