Why does Muppet fandom seem so underground?

[Drtooth]

Hey I go to several anime conventions a year...tho truth be told, Im not too much into anime or manga anymore

First off, for the record, Lucky Luke is a Belgian comic... I'll go into that later.

But I really tend to think what really ruined anime over here (and this is going to fit in nicely on topic) is the so called fan base. I have the soul of a 1980's anime club meeting in the backroom of a community center (actually, I GO to one of those, believe it or not)... I want to watch all this stuff I've never seen before old and new, all the obscure stuff on bootlegged Korean grocery tapes and discuss them. When I go to a convention, I go to the panels hosted by actual animation geeks that KNOW stuff... ones that tell you all about the directors and creators you SHOULD know that shaped the industry... ones that heckle the really bad stuff for fun with the soul of MST3K, and know all the dirty little hidden adult jokes in American cartoons. That's why ANYONE should go to a convention.

But most of the so called fans are their for lulz and glomps and like most of them are just going their for the gaming stuff to the point where everyone only sells Mario and Sonic stuff. And the teenagers and their tedious fan arts of couples that are barely implied, or fantasy pair ups. And the people who even watch anime only watch the newest of the new, and don't think about the old school. They're all a bunch of posers. And this is coming from a guy who swore he'd never like the stuff so he could be different in college. I could also go into what stinks about how we get the stuff here, but that's another thread.

Now, maybe it IS a good thing that Muppet fandom isn't all that big. Could you imagine the tedious fan art we'd get? I've seen some of it start to creep in though... not naming names... but I got a humanized Gobo snogging a humanized Wembley in my club watches and I wasn't too happy about that.

But if it's any consultation, most of everything I like is underground. And I admit, it's mixed. It's lonely trying to get a conversation up about Osomatu-kun, obscure Fox Kids shows, and Franco Belgian comics... but there's just something special about something intimate that doesn't have the huge fanbase. I bet the 2 people that actually check my artwork out will know that a good half of the stuff I draw goes without many favorites because of the relative obscurity. But it has to be drawn.

And one other thing... We have to establish the difference between what makes a fan a fan and what makes someone just someone that likes it. There are a lot of people who claim to like the Muppets, but they wouldn't be considered actual fans... so that's where the basis of this subject is.

 

[beaker]

But most of the so called fans are their for lulz and glomps and like most of them are just going their for the gaming stuff to the point where everyone only sells Mario and Sonic stuff. And the teenagers and their tedious fan arts of couples that are barely implied, or fantasy pair ups. And the people who even watch anime only watch the newest of the new, and don't think about the old school. They're all a bunch of posers. And this is coming from a guy who swore he'd never like the stuff so he could be different in college. I could also go into what stinks about how we get the stuff here, but that's another thread.

Sorry bro, but thats PRECISELY why friends and I go to medium to big sized anime cons several times a year. Mostly for the fun atmosphere, seeing all the costumes, all the nerdy/artsy/cosplayed girls, meeting cool people, the artist alley, finding cool Mario and Sonic stuff, the gaming, the raves, the everything. Never been one for panels, and the archtype of the obsessed anime geek who knows all the trivia....well, comic book guy from the simpsons comes to mind. I know the archtype of the late 80's/early 90's vhs sub tape trade otaku mostly male attendee small anime and comic cons hosted on community college campuses very well. I was there. I was going to cons way way back in the day, and you know...they sucked. It was just a bunch of bad hygeine socially inept cliche'd nerds buying girl garage kits, salivating over 4th gen robotech vhs bootleg copu subs, and so forth. When 2002 came, and anime cons became whiz bang, productions where people were in costumes and half or more of the attendees became female...thats when it became fun.

Then again, I maybe watch just a few "anime" movies a year, so a convention strictly about anime/manga would kind of be boring to me. But Ive been to many many conventions over the years. Gaming, tabletop, comic, sci fi, DIY zine/crafts, etc and anime ones are always the most fun and outrageous. Who wants to be stuck in a panel all day with other guys who cant get a girlfriend and know every factoid about fist of the north star?
(actually myself not being able to get a girlfriend is another reason why I like going to cons, girls dig the artsy nerds there)

And one other thing... We have to establish the difference between what makes a fan a fan and what makes someone just someone that likes it. There are a lot of people who claim to like the Muppets, but they wouldn't be considered actual fans... so that's where the basis of this subject is.

Everyone in the world has a favorite muppet if you ask them. And the deepest level of fandom you may find is "oh wait, I loved those two old guys, remember them? Oh and Fonzie, he's my favorite". But hey so what...can ya blame em? I realized when I made this thread, most people havent been exposed much to Kermit and the gang(the post JH 90's up and down period, then the post EMTV and later post Disney buyout period where they didnt do anything with the Muppets) Plus its been nothing but that horrid red menace Heckno, I mean Elmo on Sesame Street. But the point is people seem truly delighted when they see the Muppets even if they arent in the spotlight. The Muppets seem to really resonate with folks.

So heres hoping to Disney Store *actually* releasing some cool merch!(Im still sad they never really released Up stuff)

 

[RedPiggy]

There are a lot of people who claim to like the Muppets, but they wouldn't be considered actual fans... so that's where the basis of this subject is.

And what exactly would that constitute? I mean, up until I became a nurse, there was no physical way for me to attend one convention a year much less multiple ones, or buy mounds of toys and videos. Heck, even when I return to full time after my back heals, I'm playing catch-up. Can't fans be fans without having to starve to pay for that obscure little metal pin in the shape of Red or something?

I'm not (entirely) offended. Heck, you may not have even meant it that way. Still, I've noticed that a large collection of Muppet merchandise is to be assumed by those who are passionate. Some of us can be extremely passionate while being extremely not-rich.

 

[bazooka_beak]

1. On one hand, I love that the fandom is so small that we seem to have some kind of happy, passionate bond about the Muppets. And we don't need the drama that other fandoms have, believe me. On the other hand... it's lonely!

2. If it wasn't for my parents, I admit that I would be one of those people that either vaguely remembers the Muppets as "those strange puppets" from years ago, or doesn't know them at all. Before I was even born, my parents nicknamed me Scooter after youknowwho. When I was little (early-mid 80s), my parents would play The Muppet Movie soundtrack in the car, and my dad would play that John Denver Christmas record every year. He taped SO many TV specials for my sister and I to watch, and it stayed with us. I'm also lucky that my brother-in-law loves the Muppets too, especially Beaker (whom he named a pet after). In my teen years, I had a friend who loved The Labyrinth and would sometimes break into the "Dance Magic Dance" with me... but that's about it.

I think a large problem is lack of exposure. My parents might be annoyed that I don't know their childhood hero from the 1950s, but how could I if I was never exposed to him or her? We can't blame the new generation entirely.

 

[Gelfling Girl]

In my teen years, I had a friend who loved The Labyrinth and would sometimes break into the "Dance Magic Dance" with me...

Oh, how cool!

 

[goshposh]

It cant be that underground. I was Six Flags today and saw tons of people wearing muppet related t shirts, from kids to adults!

 

[Psammeadboi]

I have to agree with the analysis of people immediately associating the word Muppet with Muppet Babies and Sesame Street. This does seem to get some rather interesting reactions.

I, for one, have a habit of saying, "Yes, I'm a Muppet Fan. But it's not limited to the Muppets you see on Sesame Street or Muppet Babies, but The Muppet Show, Fraggle Rock, and the whole body of Henson work. In essence, I'm a Jim Henson fan."

That usually gets people thinking in a different direction. Usually,the folks that hear that then start mentioning things like The Dark Crystal and Labyrinth. They might be fans, they just don't know it yet!

I usually don't find reluctance from people about admitting being a fan, but Muppet fans have to speak up first. I always tell people, my friends, co-workers, sometimes complete strangers (by the wearing of a shirt or bag), that I am a Muppet fan and it ignites a fire within them to usually fondly remember the Muppets from their childhood or recent pop culture.

 

[Drtooth]

And what exactly would that constitute? I mean, up until I became a nurse, there was no physical way for me to attend one convention a year much less multiple ones, or buy mounds of toys and videos. Heck, even when I return to full time after my back heals, I'm playing catch-up. Can't fans be fans without having to starve to pay for that obscure little metal pin in the shape of Red or something?

I'm not (entirely) offended. Heck, you may not have even meant it that way. Still, I've noticed that a large collection of Muppet merchandise is to be assumed by those who are passionate. Some of us can be extremely passionate while being extremely not-rich.

Well, I didn't explain it fully because I felt that was another post for later on in this thread, plus I was busy with something else...

You can't measure a fan based on merchandise sales alone. Heck, you're talking to someone who has absolute NO money and has to scrape for the comics. I don't even have Fraggle Season sets yet! No kidding.

The true difference between a fan and someone who likes something is this:

• If your favorite show was on, and somehow there was a Muppet movie on TV, you've seen it countless times, you'd switch over to watch it anyway.
• You actually know the names of characters that only appear in a couple episodes.
• You list it FIRST (or high up) in a series of your favorite things
• You shudder in pain when someone mistakingly calls him Fonzie

In short the actual passion you feel for the characters and their body of work that feature them. You can say "Oh I like such and such a movie or TV show" when you watch it if there's nothing else on and there's nothing else to do.

 

[beaker]

And what exactly would that constitute? I mean, up until I became a nurse, there was no physical way for me to attend one convention a year much less multiple ones, or buy mounds of toys and videos. Heck, even when I return to full time after my back heals, I'm playing catch-up. Can't fans be fans without having to starve to pay for that obscure little metal pin in the shape of Red or something?

I'm not (entirely) offended. Heck, you may not have even meant it that way. Still, I've noticed that a large collection of Muppet merchandise is to be assumed by those who are passionate. Some of us can be extremely passionate while being extremely not-rich.

Shoot, you don't need to own one single item(ok, maybe thats a stretch) to be a fan. It's all in the heart and soul! Heck, Muppetdom is one of the only family/children beloved franchise that has a heart. I dont feel that magic with hardly any other property

 

[beaker]

I have to agree with the analysis of people immediately associating the word Muppet with Muppet Babies and Sesame Street. This does seem to get some rather interesting reactions.

I, for one, have a habit of saying, "Yes, I'm a Muppet Fan. But it's not limited to the Muppets you see on Sesame Street or Muppet Babies, but The Muppet Show, Fraggle Rock, and the whole body of Henson work. In essence, I'm a Jim Henson fan."

That usually gets people thinking in a different direction. Usually,the folks that hear that then start mentioning things like The Dark Crystal and Labyrinth. They might be fans, they just don't know it yet!

I usually don't find reluctance from people about admitting being a fan, but Muppet fans have to speak up first. I always tell people, my friends, co-workers, sometimes complete strangers (by the wearing of a shirt or bag), that I am a Muppet fan and it ignites a fire within them to usually fondly remember the Muppets from their childhood or recent pop culture.

And it definitely seems like EVERYONE our age, if they're in college or go to shows or like cool stuff...knows and loves Beaker and Swedish Chef. I argue Beaker is to the Muppets what Boba Fett is to Star Wars: a cult favorite. I guarantee, anyone on here wears a Beaker or Fraggle Rock shirt, they WILL get stares, smiles and good comments. People really resonate with that stuff

And yeah, when people realize that DUH! Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, Farscape, Fraggle Rock, etc is all Henson works...well, like ya said, people are fans.