Sesame Street didn't really start having significant changes until the early 1980s

[minor muppetz]

I've recently noticed that Sesame Street didn't really start to have any real major series-affecting changes until the early 1980s when Mr. Hooper died. Before then, the various changes weren't as significant. Puppets and sets were rebuilt, some characters were recast, characters would come and/ or go. But other than maybe soem proper character introductions, most of the changes weren't that significant.

After all, with the exceptions of Mr. Hooper and David, nobody's absense from the show was pointed out/ explained when they were gone (okay, so Goldilocks' absense was eventually explained when she made a return appearance several years after disapearing from the show). As far as I know nobody ever got their own proper goodbye episode. And of course when series changes get brougth up (in Sesame Street: 20 and Still Counting and The Street We Live On) it's always stuff from the 1980s.

Anybody ever notice this?

 

[D'Snowth]

Yeah... the format as well... it's like around the early 80s is when actual storylines for street scenes started becoming the norm, rather than various different street scenes in vignette style.

 

[Drtooth]

I've recently noticed that Sesame Street didn't really start to have any real major series-affecting changes until the early 1980s when Mr. Hooper died. Before then, the various changes weren't as significant. Puppets and sets were rebuilt, some characters were recast, characters would come and/ or go. But other than maybe soem proper character introductions, most of the changes weren't that significant.

I never really thought about it... but as you pointed it out, the only major changes were subtle. Though I still think the biggest change from the first 3 years was dropping the "goofy adult" comedy segments (Larry and Phylis et al) due to the increase of more Muppet characters. And in all honesty, I think that was one of the best moves they made in the earlier seasons. Plus, the rerunning of certain segments in the same episode seemed to leave just before 1980 hit (though I'd need more proof of that).

Yeah... the format as well... it's like around the early 80s is when actual storylines for street scenes started becoming the norm, rather than various different street scenes in vignette style.

A change I think suited the show better. Not that I have no love for the semi-disconnected segments... but I think giving a full recurring storyline really gave the show some meat. While it did manage to make it more like a TV show than visiting with these guys, which is what they clearly intended in the first place.

But the REAL changes came in the 90's and the last decade. We ALL know the reason for that, and we all know of the odd competitors that they had since. But SS has changed every season since 33, and sometimes they make large lateral moves and change the changes back, all the while while changing the changing of the changes the next season.

 

[D'Snowth]

A change I think suited the show better. Not that I have no love for the semi-disconnected segments... but I think giving a full recurring storyline really gave the show some meat.

Exactly, the show flowed much better in general with that change.

But the REAL changes came in the 90's and the last decade. We ALL know the reason for that, and we all know of the odd competitors that they had since. But SS has changed every season since 33, and sometimes they make large lateral moves and change the changes back, all the while while changing the changing of the changes the next season.

Another reason too is with the departure of Jon Stone, because let's face it, he pretty much was the glue that held the show together... since then, Sesame Street went from being a realistic inner-city street like he wanted to pretty much a cute little community street... no much grudge, no more peeling paints, no more little spots of litter here and there... now it's all clean, bright, colorful, etc. Though I've noticed since Season 37 or so that they've tried to add a LITTLE more grundge to the street... dead leaves scattered here and there, and noticable oil stains on the sidewalk just outside Big Bird's doors, etc.

In a sense, it's almost like without Jon's guidance, they don't know what they're doing... changing the Fix-It-Shop to the Mail-It-Shop then back to the Fix-It-Shop then moving the Fix-It-Shop and housing a laundromat... painting animal murals and refurbishing the staircase to the carriage house storage attic, only to change all of that back a few seasons later, same with painting the doors and window frames of 123 red, only to go back to green a couple of seasons later... getting rid of Big Bird's construction doors, replacing them with large wooden rectangle with child-like holes of different shapes to look through, then back to construction doors... in fact, just about the only recent change that makes since is how they talked about the need to modernize Hooper's Store from an old-fashioned candy store/soda shop to a convenient store. Matter of fact, if fixing toasters was getting old, maybe Maria and Luis could have turned the Fix-It-Shop into like maybe a desktop/laptop repair shop... they're popping up everywhere these days.

 

[Drtooth]

Exactly, the show flowed much better in general with that change.
Another reason too is with the departure of Jon Stone, because let's face it, he pretty much was the glue that held the show together... since then, Sesame Street went from being a realistic inner-city street like he wanted to pretty much a cute little community street... no much grudge, no more peeling paints, no more little spots of litter here and there... now it's all clean, bright, colorful, etc. Though I've noticed since Season 37 or so that they've tried to add a LITTLE more grundge to the street... dead leaves scattered here and there, and noticable oil stains on the sidewalk just outside Big Bird's doors, etc.

When someone that big leaves any project, you're gonna have to scramble to get things to a basic normalcy. The muppets were hit hard when Henson passed, and they've been struggling to have the same voice for some time now. And every time they just about get a close approximation, some odd shakeup happens.

After a lot of key people at SS left or passed on, they had to struggle like crazy to find a voice for themselves, not to mention the high popularity of upstart garbage like Barney.

Now SS is in even worse competition with loud and obnoxious Nick Jr and Playhouse Disney stuff, and they also want to keep some stuff to keep the old schoolers happy... basically they're doing a juggling act with too many objects one handed, and also the objects are chainsaws and firecrackers. They change one segment or something, get rid of it, bring it back for an episode, something doesn't test right, something tests too good... everything conflicts, they have to add in this curriculum, they have to add in this character, they have to add in this segment that's a vehicle for that character, doesn't test well, needs to be shorter, shortening didn't test well, revert back to start, get rid of, put back, get rid of again, kids like longer segments, kids like shorter segments, let's try getting rid of Elmo's World, didn't work, need to keep it on, get complaints about it being on, can't do anything, more old clips, less old clips, no old clips, fan service reference to old clips, Letters at the beginning, numbers at the end, numbers at the beginning, letters at the end, both at the midway point, kids are too fat, let's stress excersizing, kids can't read, let's stress reading and excersizing, kids can't count, let's still stress exersize and sort of hint at the other two... blah blah blah.

Are you confused? I certainly wouldn't wanna work on substance on that show. Meanwhile the competition speaks....very....slowly...and...makes...redundant...statements and sits around answering it's own questions.

 

[StreetScenes]

well, we're talking two kinds of changes here. there's the character introductions/departures/life developments, and the changes in the look, sound, and format of the show. in technical terms, the former would be "diegetic" (within the narrative--changes the characters themselves see), and the latter would be "intradiegetic" (within the show as a product constructed by the writers, directors, etc., but not in the narrative itself).

considering that the show itself, over the seasons, isn't a narrative like a soap opera is, it doesn't make sense to make many diegetic changes anyway. the ones we're talking about--death, marriage, babies, they didn't write for the purpose of having an overarching story arc. they wrote them because they had an opportunity to do a single show that had a certain lesson.

it would not only be unnecessary but also probably confusing and bad if they tried to explain every life development & absence of every character. (ex: i'm post-hooper, but watched christmas eve on sesame street every year. always considered mr. hooper a cast member, never questioned why i only saw him in that special. didn't even notice that the whole cast got ten years younger every christmas eve...)

it's only because they're now in the position to generate fan interest and money from anniversary specials every five years that they try to use these incidents as diegetic changes, to try to give the whole history of the show a coherent story it never had. so basically, the changes within the storyline are all contrived fan-created merchandise-driven fluff that don't actually exist.

the intradiegetic changes are the ones that actually make a difference (look, sound, format, major educational ideologies used in writing). one of the biggest changes is the lack of older segments in the mix: the idea that older segments have a look and a sound that's too different to mix in with newer segments, the block format change that keeps them from showing many inserts anyway, and the educational philosophies that shaped those changes as well as how they write & direct the new material.

those changes didn't happen until recently. and then they try to hide it or justify it by saying it's always been experimental. but they're talking about a very different level of experimentation (one that changes the nature of the show itself) from the experimentation on the individual segment level that kept the show effective and good for the first few decades of its existence.

 

[Drtooth]

the intradiegetic changes are the ones that actually make a difference (look, sound, format, major educational ideologies used in writing). one of the biggest changes is the lack of older segments in the mix: the idea that older segments have a look and a sound that's too different to mix in with newer segments, the block format change that keeps them from showing many inserts anyway, and the educational philosophies that shaped those changes as well as how they write & direct the new material.

those changes didn't happen until recently. and then they try to hide it or justify it by saying it's always been experimental. but they're talking about a very different level of experimentation (one that changes the nature of the show itself) from the experimentation on the individual segment level that kept the show effective and good for the first few decades of its existence.

We of course can't forget the changes outside of SS, that caused the show to change drastically... again, competition. They had to bring in a team to deal with Barney... and then they've been mucking around with the newer seasons because of the obvious. SS was created at a time when there was no competition... now everyone and their mother knows that the preschool show is the most lucrative thing out there, and they toss together another annoying Dora clone. Honestly, I don't see any problems with certain older segments. Surely, there are a bunch of classic Ernie and Berts that are evergreen. They showed stuff from as far back as the 70's just a few years ago. I can see the rational... they showed 70's stuff through the 80's and 00's... now it's time to show all this stuff from the 90's (indeed, they do)... but I don't know why some evergreen clips can't be added into the mix.

 

[StreetScenes]

We of course can't forget the changes outside of SS, that caused the show to change drastically... again, competition. They had to bring in a team to deal with Barney... and then they've been mucking around with the newer seasons because of the obvious. SS was created at a time when there was no competition... now everyone and their mother knows that the preschool show is the most lucrative thing out there, and they toss together another annoying Dora clone. Honestly, I don't see any problems with certain older segments. Surely, there are a bunch of classic Ernie and Berts that are evergreen. They showed stuff from as far back as the 70's just a few years ago. I can see the rational... they showed 70's stuff through the 80's and 00's... now it's time to show all this stuff from the 90's (indeed, they do)... but I don't know why some evergreen clips can't be added into the mix.

ah yes, the "extradiegetic" changes, to complete the jargon triad. and not just the ones from other television shows, but other media and technology that vies for the attention of kids and their parents. if we take that into the mix, then we can include their website in the scope of what they make available to viewers. and then, nothing changes at all except that we are now free to create our own "episodes" by choosing which sketches we watch.

 

[D'Snowth]

As far as significant set changes are concerned, save for curving the street in 1970, the series of significant changes didn't really start until like 1988 or so with a simply change of the scenery in the backdrop behind the fence in the arbor, then it seems like afterwards, small changes kept being made here and there, up until the ATC era when the entire set was not only moved to a new studio, but was brightened up and made to look more colorful... then the next big change was when ATC was dropped, and they placed Elmo's apartment building behind the fence in the arbor... then came 2002, and since then, like Drtooth said, something was changed every year from that point on.

Are far as the Sesame Timeline is concerned, 1970, 1993, 1998, 2002 and 2008 are the years where the set underwent the most radical changes.

 

[Drtooth]

then came 2002, and since then, like Drtooth said, something was changed every year from that point on.

And as I said, half the changes were to change something back and forth. Seemed like they were doing away with longer, character vehicle segments like a couple seasons ago, and all the sudden they introduced Murray had a Little Lamb and Abby's fairy school. The only change they didn't change back was Elmo's World, but it's not like they didn't try.

2009 was a very drastic change, I think... and if it tested poorly it will be changed too.