I miss the real Kermit

[Randall Flagg]

And no, I'm not talking about the voice or anything, I'm talking about the personality. What happened to the Kermit from the 70s? The frog who was always getting frazzled, losing his temper, flapping his arms around, screaming at his fellow muppets, curling his lip in disdain, blatantly flirting with female costars and annoying Piggy, etc, etc, etc?

Instead, in all the TV specials we see him in now, he's this cloyingly sappy goody-two-shoes. I noticed it especially during "Letters To Santa", but then after thinking about it, I really can't remember the last time we saw the fun Kermit as opposed to the good-two-shoes Kermit. They've got the voice good enough now, but they really need to bring back his personality.

 

[MuppetLabsBoy]

And no, I'm not talking about the voice or anything, I'm talking about the personality. What happened to the Kermit from the 70s? The frog who was always getting frazzled, losing his temper, flapping his arms around, screaming at his fellow muppets, curling his lip in disdain, blatantly flirting with female costars and annoying Piggy, etc, etc, etc?

Instead, in all the TV specials we see him in now, he's this cloyingly sappy goody-two-shoes. I noticed it especially during "Letters To Santa", but then after thinking about it, I really can't remember the last time we saw the fun Kermit as opposed to the good-two-shoes Kermit. They've got the voice good enough now, but they really need to bring back his personality.

I agree

 

[JJandJanice]

And no, I'm not talking about the voice or anything, I'm talking about the personality. What happened to the Kermit from the 70s? The frog who was always getting frazzled, losing his temper, flapping his arms around, screaming at his fellow muppets, curling his lip in disdain, blatantly flirting with female costars and annoying Piggy, etc, etc, etc?

Instead, in all the TV specials we see him in now, he's this cloyingly sappy goody-two-shoes. I noticed it especially during "Letters To Santa", but then after thinking about it, I really can't remember the last time we saw the fun Kermit as opposed to the good-two-shoes Kermit. They've got the voice good enough now, but they really need to bring back his personality.

Kermit does still do a lot of that stuff, especially firting with female costars much to Miss Piggy's dismay. Didn't you seen the Pizza Hut commericals with Jessica Simpson, or even his cameo on Deal or No Deal. He also still gets annoyed every now and again with Fozzie and Piggy. I think you might be looking too much into one side of his personality.

I do agree, so some level, that the Kermits has gotten maybe a little too (as you put it) "goody-two-shoes." But I don't feel that's just Kermit, I feel it's most of the Muppets besides maybe Pepe. But hey I'm still enjoying them as they are

 

[Super Scooter]

Well, Steve made him into that Kermit for a while, and people complained that he was too mean and snarky. It's a no-win situation, I'm afraid.

 

[ploobis]

If you watch the bloopers from Letters To Santa, There's an Outtake that really makes me laugh every time I watch it!

It's when Piggy slams the door then Kermit looks at the Muppet gang and yells "WHAT ARE YOU ALL LOOKING AT? WE'RE HAVING A FIGHT, ALRIGHT!"

I laugh every time I watch that!

 

[Randall Flagg]

If you watch the bloopers from Letters To Santa, There's an Outtake that really makes me laugh every time I watch it!

It's when Piggy slams the door then Kermit looks at the Muppet gang and yells "WHAT ARE YOU ALL LOOKING AT? WE'RE HAVING A FIGHT, ALRIGHT!"

I laugh every time I watch that!

I never saw that, but that's exactly the sort of thing they should be doing.

Thinking back on the Muppet Show-- back then, if Gonzo did a lousy act, Kermit would likely be flapping his arms around, yelling at him to "GET OFF THE STAGE! ARRGHHHH!" These days, he'd put a comforting arm around Gonzo and say something sappy about how Gonzo shouldn't feel bad that the act failed, and how important it is to just keep trying and to be true to yourself, etc, etc, etc.
I know Kermit always had a BIT of a sappy side, but it was more balanced in the past with his frazzled side. These days, he's 95% sappy.
Oh well, I guess things evolve. I'm just missing the good ol' days.

 

[Bellygrub]

I always look at Kermit as the anchor. The wackier the rest of the cast gets, the more anchored Kermit becomes. He's got to be getting used to the rest of the gang by now

I'm trying to remember off the top of my head (and failing) but did we ever really see "frustrated/angry" Kermit outside of the Muppet Show? I know in the Muppet Movie he pretty much plays the eternal optimist. Maybe in TGMC but I haven't watch that movie in years.

 

[Drtooth]

Listen, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but if there's one argument I've heard well enough since I joined, it's the old "why aren't things exactly the way they were before their performer/franchise owner passed on" It's almost as old as the "Why don't we have (character performed by someone no longer working) anymore" and then whining about their voice when they get recast.

Frankly, I haven't seen Kermit do that since the Muppet Show, not even in the movies. Not even when Jim was still performing him. It's just something that evolved out of the character in movies. Sure, he did do a lot of that in Sesame Street as well... but I really didn't see him get upset at an act on stage since... well there were acts and there was a stage. I don't find him "sappy" at all... LTS, yes, it was a little sappy. It's Christmas. It oozes sap (as anyone who gets live trees will know). It's also like how Fozzie evolved since the first season from being a bad comedian to being a sympathetic comedian who tells bad jokes because he thinks they're funny, and he thinks people will find them funny... or like Gonzo going from crazy performance artist to crazy performance artist who doesn't know where he came from, and feels a little down that no one gets his vision. It happens.

Plus, I'm sure we could see that exact same Kermit IF we had something exactly like the TMS scene.

 

[Frogpuppeteer]

since DRTOOTH said what i was going to i am just gonna agree with him

 

[Frogster]

Here's what needs to be fixed in order to get the old Kermit back:

1. Stop making Kermit so spastic. Steve overdoes the scrunched-up face too much, like Kermit has the jitters or something.

2. He needs to stop making Kermit resemble the Sesame Street Kermit and start resembling The Muppet Show Kermit. He's too nice, too childish, and too "let's just all get along". I felt like I got diabetes from watching Kermit on Leno last night.

3. Kermit is the straight man...? Not anymore. The acting abilities of Kermit has left something to be desired, especially since he blew up in front of David Arquette in VMMCM with the "I wish I never been born" bit. Sometimes watching Kermit these days is like seeing your best friend who stinks at singing audition for American Idol. Because even though your friend is a terrible singer, you don't want to be a jerk, so you support him when he goes to audition. Because even though this guys' friends and family support him and say he's good, the larger crowd- the American audience- says otherwise and looks for someone better. And sadly, MuppetCentral, we're really just the 'family and friends.' America has made the vote.

4. Also, and I know this is nitpicky, but there's also a certain way that Steve works Kermit's arms that I don't like. It's just so noticeable. It's hard to describe, so here's a video of Jim's Kermit, and one with Steve's Kermit. Check out the placement of the arms.

Steve's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFERrPhNGqs

Jim's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9JeytBMLdc

5. A. Also- and this goes for nearly all the Muppet characters- they seemed to have lost their language of subtlety. This kind of goes with Point #2. None of the characters seem to have any depth, they're as flat as cartoon characters. Next time you get the chance, watch the scene in Muppets Take Manhattan where Kermit is will Gill, Jill and Bill in Pete's Diner, right beside everybody else, who have all given up on trying to find Kermit, then suddenly Kermit starts to cling the glasses to the song "Together Again." There's really not a lot of talk until Gonzo discovers Kermit's right there. It's a serious moment where everyone is upset that they can't find him. It's a pretty memorable scene right?

5. B. That same movie also has a scene where everyone is asking Kermit what they should do next, and Kermit has just had enough. He doesn't flail his arms, doesn't get uncontrollable, he doesn't even scrunch up his face, he just tells them, in a very stern way, he's really just tired of having all the weight on him. It's the kind of reaction I'd expect from someone if I was in that situation.

I get it; there are different levels of Muppet fans, and we can't all agree on one exact type of Kermit. There's my opinion of a good Kermit, and then there's yours. I like a mature, friendly, relate-able Kermit who actually shows he's a leader. You don't need him to always either be 'happy-smiley' or 'frowny-face'. That's bi-polar. None of us act like that, they shouldn't either. Yes, Muppets have touched the lives of kids, but a lot of us on here are adults now, and what we liked then we still like today. If Jim can reach both levels, then these guys should be able to as well. From my point of view, I believe Kermit has lost his true appeal (as well as some of the other Muppets) and this is what's made it so hard for them to catch a break with a TV show or movie.