Why did MFS and EIG bomb so bad?

[JJandJanice]

I've been back...

Are you seriously asking that question? Other than the Wizard of Oz movie and the Christmas special, what has Disney done with the Muppets? Whatever happened to all of these other projects they said they were working on? Sure, they give us The Muppet Show on DVD... always delaying them, though. Why do you guys have so much faith in them anyway? It's the same story with all of these other big corporations - they purchase these media franchises so no one else will, and then hardly do a thing with them, because they never really intend to anyway.

I really feel the Henson family should sue Disney to regain the rights to the Muppets, and NOT sell them to another bigger company again; it was Walt Disney himself who always told people to never sell anything that you create.

Ok dude maybe I'm missing something but how can the Henson company sue for something they sold? Plus what case could they have? We don't feel their using the characters our father created right. I don't know but that doesn't really sound like it would hold up to me.

The Muppet Show DVDs keep getting delayed cause their are still a lot of music rights to go though. You know the companies that own those songs, well some of them, are trying to take Disney to the cleaners, trying to get them to pay as much as possible. Disney does smart bussiness usually and their not going to just pay any amount, it has to be fair.

Plus aside from the two TV specials, they Muppets have made cameos from time to time, most notable Statlor and Waldorf. What some fans seem to really forget is that the Muppets aren't all Disney is going to deal with, like Luke said they have a lot on the table from Mickey Mouse to Hannah Montana. Not to mention those Studio DC specials, which isn't a lot of our cup of tea, but still the point is their trying to market the Muppets to a younger fan base. Not to mention the new Muppet movie is still under works, the working title is "The Greatest Muppet Movie of All Time." Movies don't just take a few months to make, their still in the writing stages, so it's going to be some time before we actually see this on the big screen.

I agree with a lot of what Luke said, it's only been five years since Disney bought the Muppets and there is still plenty of time. I don't understand how after five years people are still upset over Disney now owning the Muppets. The Muppets will NEVER been owned by Henson again. Unless Disney totally loses all money or did some sort of merger like AOL and Time Warner. That cause Ted Turner to sell all kinds of assets from the Hawks to his beloved pro wrestling company WCW.

 

[beaker]

They shelved the show remember? It was supposed to be a spoof of The Office, featuring Kermit trying to get the rest of the gang back together (apparently they went their separate ways).

Other than that, they're going to shelf the movie as well. I can sense it. It's no ESP, but it's a strong prediction.

I almost forgot about EMTV, you're right, but they did seem to do a little better under EMTV's belt... we got Kermit's Swamp Years, It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, and Animal Jam to name a few out of it... they were under EMTV at that time weren't they?

Someday I hope that Muppets mockumentary mini series leaks online somewhere

 

[beaker]

Not from what I've heard - everybody's talking about how Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs is "the best yet" (hardly in my opinion, while it was certainly a lot better than the second, it's still nowhere near as good as the first), yada-yada-yada, meanwhile some say Up follows in the tradition that each new Pixar movie is better than the last, while some feel a grumpy old man being the "hero" isn't very marketable.

1. There's very little to be excited with in regards to Ice Age movies. I remember being talked into seeing the original 2002 film, and being bored to tears. Not very modern cg, mostly white background, boring story. There's been such a massive glut of kids cg talking animal films in the last decade, that its almost impossible to tell them apart(tho I find Monsters vs Aliens 3D to be visionary)

2. UP is by far my favorite Pixar film. Least its way high up there.
The fact Disney decided to make no toys or hardly any merchandise is sad. I cant stand Cars, and while I dig Incredibles it of course lacked in depth. Rattatouie was an unusual movie but toward the end I feel it had a lot of substance. UP, especially when seen in 3d, is truly something else. Pixar continually makes more existential, seemingly more adult meditative films that resonate on deeper levels than in the past now.

 

[beaker]

It's a miracle they are even trying again after Oz but generally anything Muppety is always going to make them money in the longterm. The stuff sells internationally and is just re-run over and over for years. Even the not so good stuff.

I know Ive been saying it for a decade on here...but doesnt it seem like the Muppets are by and large(least in the US)...kind of underground? I dont exactly see too many hardcore Muppet fans outside of this little website. I almost feel like anything Muppet produced is more a courtesy to an extremely niche fanbase.

 

[Drtooth]

It seems to me that only certain family movies get a decent amount of TV ads, while others don't; I recall wondering how Clifford's Really Big Movie could be "really big" if I didn't see a single promotion for it, lol (I didn't see the movie, I'm just commenting on the peculiar name). Recently, I've seen quite a few TV ads for Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs, but not nearly as much for Up, and I hardly saw any ads for Land of the Lost.

I wonder if pre-reviews from movie critics effect the outcome of advertising, because so far, critics have loved the new Ice Age movie, while Up seems to have gotten varied reviews, while people apparently hate Land of the Lost and blame it all on Will Ferrell (and the fact it was a comedy, and the fact that apparently Chaka repeatedly gropes Holly).

I always felt the Ice Age films as decent fun... not really the best out there... I like what Blue Sky does, but they need to get BETTER script people. They seem to make these big big movies with scripts that need to go on 3 more drafts. Ice Age 3 actually felt like it only needed 1 more draft to go. Plus, Simon Pegg pretty much carried the entire film. Or at least shared the burden with John Leguizamo. Funny thing about the film... it's rated PG. They don't swear, but they made so many private part jokes. Any movie where they have to say "dang" but they get away with (off screen) Sid milking a male gnu is a total confus-a-rama. I really liked it, though.

Land of the Lost was complete and utter bullocks. Really it was. No use even talking about it. They wanted a jadeded crappy little drunken frat boy "I have a T-Shirt of that SHOW! I never saw it, but I love that FRIKKIN T-Shirt! WOOOOO!" crowd.

meanwhile some say Up follows in the tradition that each new Pixar movie is better than the last, while some feel a grumpy old man being the "hero" isn't very marketable.

You know... I'm blaming that on Pixar. Somehow they didn't want to make any merchandise. They since refused Happy Meal toys. Now, I could see problems with Ratatoullie. What gourmet French rat would be worth his salt marketing 99 cent crudburgers? And Wall*E... the bone lost humans in hoverchairs? Not on a BK glass, I'll tell you that. I'm sure we'll see a TS3 promo... But really, something tells me that Pixar didn't want them to merchandise and market Up toys or even Pez (apparently, there is a Wall*E and Eve Pez, but only available in Europe). In fact, the Disney store is the only place to find it (if you can find one still open that is... I hear it's making a comeback, though)... and it's only 3 large (not even Bean Bag sized) plush of the dogs (Dug, the doberman and the Bulldog that was in there for like 5 minutes)... and one extra extra large Dug... the rest are all travel mugs and compasses and stuff. Not even a darn figurine set.

As for the Muppet Movie... I said it before on the "Unofficial script review" thread. Disney has nothing to gain by passing on this. the 2 head writers of the script would probably be ticked off and vow never to work with Disney again, and they'd encourage their big name friends not to either. Plus, we've seen a wave of Muppet stuff in recent months. Sure, no action figure line... but we're getting all the seasons on DVD, slowly no thanks to greedy corporations that own the songs they sing. Comics, 2 TV specials (one in production), urban vynals, costumes, random appearances.... they're hyping them up so that a movie could be made. The only stumbling block WAS the Oz film. And honestly, that was because it was an ill conceived, rushed, embarrassing piece of crap that didn't know what focus group to aim for... what? Tweens? Jaded 20 year olds? Ever since the dark broken promises of 2005, the only project that was cancelled was the Election Special, which wouldn't even have been in production a week before it had to air.

Big things are happening... we just have to be patient.

 

[D'Snowth]

Ok dude maybe I'm missing something but how can the Henson company sue for something they sold? Plus what case could they have?

Breech of contract. It's been said a million times, but back in the 90s, Ross Bagdasarian Jr. sold Alvin and The Chipmunks to Universal, after they had promised him they'd make The Chipmunks bigger in the 1990s/2000s than they were in the 1980s/1990s - including new TV shows, TV specials, theatrical movies, merchandise, a theme park attraction, etc; during that time, all Universal did were those two direct-to-video monster movies and that's it. Because of that, Ross sued Universal for breech of contract in order to regain rights to the characters, and since he did, this is why there's suddenly all of these new DVDs and movies coming out. It's a similar thing with Disney with the Muppets - promises, promises.

I always felt the Ice Age films as decent fun... not really the best out there... I like what Blue Sky does, but they need to get BETTER script people. They seem to make these big big movies with scripts that need to go on 3 more drafts. Ice Age 3 actually felt like it only needed 1 more draft to go. Plus, Simon Pegg pretty much carried the entire film. Or at least shared the burden with John Leguizamo. Funny thing about the film... it's rated PG. They don't swear, but they made so many private part jokes. Any movie where they have to say "dang" but they get away with (off screen) Sid milking a male gnu is a total confus-a-rama. I really liked it, though.

While I liked the third one better than the second, I kind of felt the third one lacked originality - the whole concept of their being another world where dinosaurs actually still exist... LOTL anyone? Not only that, it seems like they just kept forcing any cultural references they could (I felt the whole thing about the pit with "noxious fumes" was put in there for the sake of that Chipmunks reference). There was no character development for Diego either; in fact, he seemed to be rather set aside in this movie so others could have screentime. But in this case, at least John Powell's music score worked - this movie was more about action than it was quirkiness, so Powell's cinematic music style worked a lot better, as that was one of my beefs with the second one - the first movie was a quirky movie, and as such, got a wonderful quirky score from David Newman; the second one was supposed to be relatively quirky as well, but it got a more cinematic score from Powell which didn't work.

Land of the Lost was complete and utter bullocks. Really it was. No use even talking about it. They wanted a jadeded crappy little drunken frat boy "I have a T-Shirt of that SHOW! I never saw it, but I love that FRIKKIN T-Shirt! WOOOOO!" crowd.

I can't believe it would bomb, not because Will Ferrell's in it and he just ruins every movie he's in other than Elf, but because Sid and Marty Krofft were actually involved with the production, and surely they wouldn't ruin one of their own projects would they? But then again, Ross B and Janice Karman have been involved with the production of both of these new Chipmunk movies, the first left a lot to be desired, the second one I'm not even interested in seeing.

You know... I'm blaming that on Pixar. Somehow they didn't want to make any merchandise. They since refused Happy Meal toys. Now, I could see problems with Ratatoullie. What gourmet French rat would be worth his salt marketing 99 cent crudburgers? And Wall*E... the bone lost humans in hoverchairs? Not on a BK glass, I'll tell you that. I'm sure we'll see a TS3 promo...

I've seen a lot of Ratatoullie merchandise actually, but it's mostly in the form of party favors and such, lol. As for Toy Story 3, I'll wait and see... because once again, how many times has Disney green-lit this project, shelfed it, green-lit again, shelfed it again, etc?

 

[bazooka_beak]

Personally, I like to pretend MFS wasn't made. I just think it was better to keep Gonzo as a "whatever," a goofy mystery, instead of the "He's really an alien, that's why he's so weird!" copout. It wasn't a terrible movie, but I just don't care for it.

As for the Elmo movie, I never saw it.

 

[frogboy4]

Disney is currently doing more with the Muppets than Henson did in years.

I understand people with some Disney hate. Their history with the Muppets and other properties is spotty at times, but it just doesn't apply right now. Also, they don't just own the Muppet characters or distribution rights, they own it all. Unless they defame the characters (very unlikely), Henson would have no case. Even if they did defame the characters (very unlikely), Henson would have no case - and man, the expense against Disney's lawyers just isn't worth it. The Chipmunks deal seemed to be something different altogether. Disney owns the Muppets in every way. They made sure of that. I believe that's partly the reason for the Muppets Studio label.

I'm happy for this Muppet renaissance. Mistakes have been made with the characters in the past, but they're doing fine now and I choose to enjoy that. I hope it doesn't end.

 

[D'Snowth]

This is a renaissance? Heh...

One thing I am curious about... is there some special reason the Henson company doesn't want the Muppets? Ever since Jim's death (I'm well aware he was actually going to sell them to Disney shortly before his death anyway), they've sold them to Disney, to EMTV, and to Disney again, and it just gets me to wondering why. The empty promises are probably a major factor, but there has to be more to it than that if they keep selling them like this.

 

[Traveling Matt]

One thing I am curious about... is there some special reason the Henson company doesn't want the Muppets?

The Henson kids care about the Muppets very much, but they don't want to work with them. They want to do their own thing.