Is Dinosaurs Really Muppet Worlds?

[beaker]

I always wondered what people consider "Dinosaurs".
Phil has them listed as under Muppet Worlds:
http://www.muppetcentral.com/collectibles/muppetworlds/toys.shtml

...I always just assumed it was more "Creature Shop/Fantasy Worlds" category.

Even though most the performers are Muppet alumni, and the whole thing is a Henson facilitation; it doesn't have Jim Henson's name in the title and was advertised more as Disney's Dinousaurs on ABC.

 

[Redsonga]

I never thought of it as a muppet world ether, it seemed too a world of its own for that...

 

[RedPiggy]

It takes place around 60,000,000BC. Even if it WAS supposed to be in the Muppetverse (which, for anyone who knows me, knows my preference as Yes), there obviously won't be a lot of crossover ... since they're all dead before any muppet is born. Let us not forget that Gunge had at least 3 cameos (not specifically named or voiced, but I've noticed he is NEVER eaten when caught ... the running gag is that he's always spit out). Plus, there are homages to the various SS, TMS, and FR properties, even if not specifically named. In short, I consider it a part of the Muppetverse, albeit set at a time WAAAAAY before most properties also considered a part of the Muppetverse.

 

[minor muppetz]

I consider it a creature shop production, and not Muppets. Muppet Wiki once allowed fans to vote for whether Dinosuars should be listed there as a Muppets production or a creature shop production, and most votes listed them as creatures.

 

[RedPiggy]

I'm not saying they're Muppets. They are clearly creatures (the dinosaurs, anyway ... Gunge is still a muppet). However, I consider them in the Muppetverse, unlike say Dark Crystal or Farscape.

 

[beaker]

It takes place around 60,000,000BC. Even if it WAS supposed to be in the Muppetverse (which, for anyone who knows me, knows my preference as Yes), there obviously won't be a lot of crossover ... since they're all dead before any muppet is born. Let us not forget that Gunge had at least 3 cameos (not specifically named or voiced, but I've noticed he is NEVER eaten when caught ... the running gag is that he's always spit out). Plus, there are homages to the various SS, TMS, and FR properties, even if not specifically named. In short, I consider it a part of the Muppetverse, albeit set at a time WAAAAAY before most properties also considered a part of the Muppetverse.

Well there really is no "set" canon. I don't believe it's official Gonzo is an "alien" outside of MFS. In fact when interviewed, the Muppets say they are just actors. So most of what you would see in a film or tv show is acting; and it is when you see them interviewed that is "real"(Piggy and Kermit admit they arent married in real life)

This is what makes Muppetdom unique, in that there is no set canon. No Muppet film's universe carries into the next. The Muppets in Muppets Take Manhattan did not experience that which took place in MTI, TMM, GMC, and so forth.

I mean Land of Gorch takes place in a far off land, but in reality they too were just actors...who by the last episode make a plea to stay on Saturday Night Live.

And whoah...the puppet of Gunge was in Dinosaurs several times? No way! whoah. I remember Jerry Nelson said Fizgig had a cameo in an episode of Fraggle Rock.

People try to say that Puppet Up isnt Muppets. Come on...they literally use many of the same puppets that are in Animal Jam,
From the Balcony, Mopatop, Kermit Swamp Years, etc. To me just because "legally" the Muppets as a tm is Disney, we all know that any Jim Henson puppet production usually falls under the category of Muppets.

 

[beaker]

I consider it a creature shop production, and not Muppets. Muppet Wiki once allowed fans to vote for whether Dinosuars should be listed there as a Muppets production or a creature shop production, and most votes listed them as creatures.

Aw, but this brings up another interesting question...what happens, when the line between "creature shop/fantasy" and Muppets blurs?

I say that because you look at the Jim Henson Hour, and a lot of the designs of the Muppet half hour definitely seem like a cross breed of creature shop and Muppetty. Also, the Sprocket portion of the behind the scenes of Jim Henson Creature Shop *and* Rowlf the dog's kennel visit in 1990 Muppets @WDW definitely feature creature shop dogs.

If a character used in Dinosaurs/Dark Crystal/Labyrinth/etc made a cameo in a Muppet production, does that make it a Muppet?

Also, what if there was to be a Muppet special or film, where the bad guys were Skeksis/Labyrinth looking creatures...as in total ornate grotesque creature shop designs...would that make them Muppets or Creature Shop/Fantasy?

 

[RedPiggy]

I agree that they all act like actors. This is also implied in Dinosaurs, "A New Leaf" where after the "ending" of the drug episode, they cut and Robbie acts like they're all acting as the Sinclair family for television purposes. Also, I remember a commercial where Robbie and Earl are watching apparently "our" TV, because they gripe about how all the shows are about humans and theirs is the only one about dinosaurs. In my fic-verse, what we see as the show is based off of Robbie's old videotapes about his family.

Gunge is nearly eaten by Roy in "The Howling". He's also eaten by Robbie (nearly), but I can't remember the name of the episode. I think it's Fran Live, since Fran bought him as a takeout dinner. He's also been swallowed by the Swamp Monster along with Robbie, and later Earl, when Robbie tries to go vegetarian. That's the only three times I can think of.

 

[beaker]

I agree that they all act like actors. This is also implied in Dinosaurs, "A New Leaf" where after the "ending" of the drug episode, they cut and Robbie acts like they're all acting as the Sinclair family for television purposes. Also, I remember a commercial where Robbie and Earl are watching apparently "our" TV, because they gripe about how all the shows are about humans and theirs is the only one about dinosaurs. In my fic-verse, what we see as the show is based off of Robbie's old videotapes about his family.

Gunge is nearly eaten by Roy in "The Howling". He's also eaten by Robbie (nearly), but I can't remember the name of the episode. I think it's Fran Live, since Fran bought him as a takeout dinner. He's also been swallowed by the Swamp Monster along with Robbie, and later Earl, when Robbie tries to go vegetarian. That's the only three times I can think of.

They broke the 4th wall on Dinosaurs? I don't even remember! I really haven't seen the episodes since their original airing though. That's amazing about the Gunge cameos though. Um, do you remember specifically the references to Muppets/Sesame/Fraggle Rock?

 

[beaker]

Redpiggy:

Found a really nice animated still of Philo and Gunge:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/8/8c/Philoandgungeanimated.jpg

Their muppet wiki entrie says that Gunge cameos numerous times on Dinosaurs, as well as on the Jim Henson Hour and the UK Muppet show Mopatop. Interesting! That little guy sure got around. I wonder when the last time the puppet was used in a production?

It's also so cool seeing Gunge featured in his own Fraggle Rock episode, where he's accepted into the Doozer world:
http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Episode_322:_Gunge_the_Great_and_Glorious