Best & Worst of Season 4

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But it is the FR world, not ours . No one else wants to be ruler..in fact, apart from gorgs, no one thinks that highly of them..So what is so bad about letting them keep the system? It comes with none of the trappings of our worlds ideas in the long run, no slaves, no real war..and with Jr. around as a king, a will to keep it that way I think...

The Fraggles don't want to be rulers because they don't want to be ruled, and they extend the same courtesy to others. In the "King" episode they are very eager to point out how they don't think anyone can force anyone to do anything. Even in Junior was a nice king, they wouldn't want one. And they shouldn't have to have one. Especially when, as Junior says, the universe manages to run pretty well by itself naturally.

Well remember the Gorgs' system did end up coming with those trappings, with Pa creating and using a bomb. And Pa did intend to keep the Fraggles as slaves in one episode. I don't think we can say that was just because of one particular ruler, and not the system itself. It's like how Communism sounds good in theory, but has never been successfully achieved.

 

[Redsonga]

I don't think we can say that was just because of one particular ruler, and not the system itself.

I think we can..I really think Pa was just from an older generation where rulers use to do those things. But like our slave system, or beheadings it fell out of favor (no one is saying it was ever a good thing to began with) and such when another generation (Jr.) came along.

The Fraggles don't want to be rulers because they don't want to be ruled, and they extend the same courtesy to others. In the "King" episode they are very eager to point out how they don't think anyone can force anyone to do anything.

But...

1) Truly not enforcing the idea of rulers is letting others be free to rule as they see fit and not forcing another cultures ideas on them when they are low and confused (like Jr. was).
If you get down to brass tacks fraggles actually do have two bosses that are bosses simply because they were born or grew into their roles..The Trash Heap and the World's Oldest. No one voted them in and they are listened to without much question...You could say that everyone wants to, but who is to say a gorg king could not be loved in the same way? :\

and

2) Although the fraggles didn't want rulers Jr. never said that he thought of the fraggles as subjects exactly, and he would have let them be after making friends with them anyway, so I really don't see any harm..I just don't

 

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1) Truly not enforcing the idea of rulers is letting others be free to rule as they see fit and not force their own ideas on another when they are low and confused (like Jr. was).

I'm not in favor of forcing beliefs on others of course. But just because some people may want something, doesn't mean it's good for them or others.

Junior was told his whole life that there would always be someone to boss him around and make him do things when he just wanted to garden and enjoy himself. He didn't know there were places in the world that let you do what you wanted. There are countries in the world today that would still love to find that out.

And again, even a generous ruler is still a ruler. And that flies in the face of the idea that all people are equal.

 

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If you get down to brass tacks fraggles actually do have two bosses that are bosses simply because they were born or grew into their roles..The Trash Heap and the World's Oldest. No one voted them in and they are listened to without much question...You could say that everyone wants to, but who is to say a gorg king could not be loved in the same way? :\

Well that is true, they do put the Trashheap in a higher position, you're absolutely right. On the other hand, it's very obvious the Trashheap is sort of special and higher than the other beings and deserves to be treated as such. The Gorgs are no more special than the Fraggles; they are regular species in the world, and don't need to be treated as better than them.

The World's Oldest is a bit of an enigma. Sometimes they treat him as very important, but even then, it's because he's lived a long time and has experience. (Junior's quite old too of course, but clearly mentally a child). And then other times the Fraggles ridicule TWO for thinking he's so important.

As some have said, there is much inconsistency.

 

[Redsonga]

I'm not in favor of forcing beliefs on others of course. But just because some people may want something, doesn't mean it's good for them or others.

The same could be said of the fraggle idea that the only good ruler is none at all :\.
The whole "hammer in the nail that sticks out that way everyone is equal' idea just doesn't appeal to me...I am all for peace but peace should not come at the cost of the only things a culture has to be proud of, to make them..them. However odd, silly, or backward it might seem IMHO...

On the other hand, it's very obvious the Trashheap is sort of special and higher than the other beings and deserves to be treated as such. The Gorgs are no more special than the Fraggles; they are regular species in the world, and don't need to be treated as better than them.

No one ever said he would be ruling the fraggles though, so again, what's the harm?
I actually think they do need it... *goes back to writing her fanfic*

As some have said, there is much inconsistency.

I actually see all the episodes connecting very well, some are out of order, but they make sense to me .

 

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The whole "hammer in the nail that sticks out that way everyone is equal' idea just doesn't appeal to me...I am all for peace but peace should not come at the cost of the only things a culture has to be proud of, to make them..them. However odd, silly, or backward it might seem IMHO...

You don't have to do anything to make sure everyone is equal. It is simply a fact. Despite what anyone tries to do.

I don't think that's the only thing the Gorgs had. They believe in taking oaths seriously and keeping written records of their history and clearly they appreciate music and nature.

 

[Redsonga]

You don't have to do anything to make sure everyone is equal. It is simply a fact. Despite what anyone tries to do.

And so if they are equal, they all have equal power to decide if they want a king, a queen, a minster, a wise woman, or a holy squash to began with to look up to as their ruler at whatever level they choose .

I don't think that's the only thing the Gorgs had. They believe in taking oaths seriously and keeping written records of their history and clearly they appreciate music and nature.

So they still can still write, sing, and look at things but their history books and everything around them related to how they write, sing and make promises only serves to remind them of how much faith they once had in their race and how now they will die off slowly with nothing to make them feel that they are special or have something to pass on simply by being them (if they had anyone to pass it to). What a future

Even if we are equal deep down, we all want that extra something, that special-ness, even if we know it's only a fantasy. IMHO, to me, kingship was that to the gorgs...
*doesn't really mind the idea of real kings and queens in the first place. and would like to meet one someday*
*never realized how much of a gorg fan she was untill now*
*wanders off*

 

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And so if they are equal, they all have equal power to decide if they want a king, a queen, a minster, a wise woman, or a holy squash to began with to look up to as their ruler at whatever level they choose .

Yes they do. But they also have the right not to be oppressed or treated unequally (whether they care or not).

So they still can still write, sing, and look at things

There are people who would love those opportunities and are denied them.

but their history books and everything around them related to how they write, sing and make promises only serves to remind them of how much faith they once had in their race and how now they will die off slowly with nothing to make them feel that they are special or have something to pass on simply by being them (if they had anyone to pass it to). What a future

I like the Gorgs a lot too. And I don't think they need to be better than another else in order to be special. Whether Junior is king or not, he is still who he is and very unique and special. We all have that extra special-ness that makes us stand out. And we have to respect that of everyone, not imply someone has it more than someone else.

 

[Redsonga]

There are people who would love those opportunities and are denied them.

But we're not talking about those people.
This is simply limited to the world of FR, and in this case their kingdom was the center of their culture IMHO, and the loss of that is a true loss I think .

I like the Gorgs a lot too. And I don't think they need to be better than another else in order to be special. Whether Junior is king or not, he is still who he is and very unique and special. We all have that extra special-ness. And we have to respect that of everyone, not imply someone has it more than someone else.

But sometimes, I think they do..for all sorts of reasons. And if we like someone enough, what is the harm of supporting their ideas that they're better? Even liking being ruled? In a land were war/money/and slaves is pretty much a thing of the pass to boot?

Golly, I don't know about you, but I would take being ruled over by a gorg and living in their world vs. having total freedom in ours .
even we all our 'freedom' here it is still a money class system worst than having a king IMHO...

I'd..have a strawberry field and pay my land tax in pies and play with fraggles *dreams* ^.^

 

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But we're not talking about those people.
This is simply limited to the world of FR, and in this case their kingdom was the center of their culture IMHO, and the loss of that is a true loss I think .

Fraggle Rock was created to be a mirror and inspiration to our world. They aren't separate to me.

And if we like someone enough, what is the harm of supporting their ideas that they're better? Even liking being ruled? In a land were war/money/and slaves is pretty much a thing of the pass to boot?

There's nothing wrong with supporting people. But saying one person is better than another is how wars and fighting get started.

Golly, I don't know about you, but I would take being ruled over by a gorg and living in their world vs. having total freedom in ours .

I don't think people living in the oppressed parts of our world would feel the same way. I don't think we understand how good we have it in our society.