Best & Worst of Season 4

[Redsonga]

Mokey Then & Now is so much with its story it could have made FR get another season or two with hurting anything, the same with Red's Blue Dragon IMHO. If they had not had everything planned to the letter there could have been many spin offs to...*goes back to planning Fraggle Babies*

Oh, and the whole The Gorg Who Would Be King thingie..well that goes into the great crown debate IMHO. Which I'm going to be doing my version of in my FR the movie sequel to Midnight Place idea...Needless to say I am very pro-gorgish culture, one of those things being their kings..I think it is important . In fact, I would almost say it is more important than doozers....

You know, I just thought of something...in The Gorg Who Would Be King, when they are telling Jr. all that...Cantus isn't there is h....? *runs off to fanfic writing notebook like her pants are on fire*

 

[CensoredAlso]

The whole king issue is just based on what your own personal opinion is of a monarchy. I have to sort of agree with how they chose to end it on the show. Whether a king is cruel or generous, he is still a ruler. He still rules over other human beings for no other reason than that he happens to be king. And the point of the episode is that people should be free (or at least elect their own leaders who can be voted out in a democracy hehe).

And you could argue Cantus made sure Junior became king just so he would be the one to end the monarchy (Heaven knows Pa wouldn't have!).

 

[Redsonga]

Meh, Cantus is the sort I think who would have said something to that effect, even in 'code' if he had felt it was that important IMHO...
I still say that their 'monarchy' was not hurting anything, least of all the fraggles or themselves . Maybe how Pa was using his power was bad but I can't really blame that on his title of King exactly, I think it was just...him
Oh well, I will save my ideas for the story. It has pretty much written itself now in my notebooks about this .

 

[CensoredAlso]

"Some slavery feels like freedom."

But I would be interested in seeing your story.

 

[Redsonga]

I still say nothing they did really has the feeling all at of a slavery like system, just more of a bad person doing bad things..I really think he would have done those things anyway . But I'm stubborn like that ..After all, for all our 'freedom' a voting system does not give us all the say so we think we have ether once someone is there in a high office...
But then I am very pro-tradition and other olden days things...and no that doesn't mean slavery (which, when you think about it, we still have, it's called office jobs -.-)

 

[CensoredAlso]

I still say nothing they did really has the feeling all at of a slavery like system, just more of a bad person doing bad things..I really think he would have done those things anyway . But I'm stubborn like that ..After all, for all our 'freedom' a voting system does not give us all the say so we think we have ether once someone is there in a high office...
But then I am very pro-tradition and other olden days things...

Oh I agree that Pa would probably be bad anyway. But a lot of it was based in the idea that he was better than the Fraggles simply because he was "born" king and therefore inherently better than everyone else. And even with a nice king, there is still the implication that he is somehow better than everyone else.

And I agree our system of democracy is far from perfect. Winston Churchhill said something to the effect that democracy is a horrible system, but it's better than every other system out there.

I'm quite traditional myself in many ways so I do understand. There are some things from the past I wish we hadn't lost. But on the other hand, we also made a lot of progress since the past that I wouldn't want to lose.

 

[Redsonga]

I don't think it has to be one or the other . I really think old systems can live on and not hurt anything...

 

[RedPiggy]

Considering they were really only rulers over themselves, "kingship" didn't seem to affect much. I know where the writers were going with that, but the moral doesn't (to me, at least) match the attitude in the entire rest of the show. Pa wasn't bad because he was king, he was just a guy who put tradition over reality ... though he COULD be generous when he had the choice. One reason in my fics I try to paint a sympathetic picture of him is that he really does have integrity. Had his Gorgish tradition not included being an arrogant jerk to others, he would have been different. He was raised to believe it, and I have been trying to learn to cut guys like that some slack. Pa wasn't TRYING to be bad, like, say, Jareth ... Pa was just misinformed about what was right. And I think he dissed Junior so much because he realized Junior had figured out some things better than him, but he didn't want to admit it because it would make his life a lie. It explains why there are people now who can't handle the world moving on through the 21st century. They were taught what was "right" and they're afraid of being told they lived a lie.

And I'll concede it's possible that Cantus and Marjory wanted Junior to be king just so he could ditch the crown ... but to me it wasn't that evident.

I had a dream the other night about getting proposed to by an emperor ... and I refused ... but I didn't have a thing against HIM being emperor. I just didn't want to be a ruler (which is weird, since I joke all the time that I want to run the world ... mwahahaha).

 

[Frogster]

These are some excellent points, guys. Starting with Trial of Cotterpin... I love Large Marvin and Feeny, but the whole 'rescuing Cotterpin from the baby cackler' thing was sorta silly and fake. And yeah, it's difficult for Doozers to carry a story, basically because of the lack of range of motions they can have; not only that, but, IMHO save for the Architect and Cotterpin, they all pretty much act and look exactly alike. I know what you guys might be thinking... "Well, you Fraggles all look the same." BTW, speaking of Boober & The Glob, that lil moment where Cotterpin and Boober are saying that Doozers/Fraggles are the same... interesting way of mirroring what some people think of others in our culture, whether it be with race, gender, wealth, etc. It's moments like those where Fraggle Rock really resonates with its viewers.

Secondly, Mokey. I agree, we've seen "Mokey's Funeral" already, and with that, along with a perfect blend of "Society of Poohbahs" and "Fraggle Wars" this episode pretty much looks like a rerun. Not only do I think she deserved "Rhyming Rock" but since she's dealt with Junior the most, she should have helped him realize what it means to be king in Junior's last centric episode. Plus, it'd be cool to see Mokey leading an upbeat song like "Boss Of Yourself". I will say that, aside from probably Wembley, Mokey was the one who's grown up the most. For me, it's like, in Season 1 she's this ditsy 16-year-old hippy, and when the series ends, not only does the puppet of Mokey look a lot better, but she behaves like a grown female Fraggle.

Thirdly, Junior. I understand how some people may feel that it may seem pointless for Cantus to have Junior play the Kazoo if Junior just throws the crown into our world later on. But, as previously mentioned, maybe that's exactly what Marjorie and Cantus planned on all along. We've seen how Pa (as well as Ma to some degree) rule with little thought to how their actions could snowball and cause problems for other species, and even though Junior may not seem to be the best candidate on the surface, I think both of them knew that, underneath, he would care about other people who are in trouble. As we've seen on the show, their jobs were to bring the 'worlds' of the different species together. Also, as much as I wish we coulda had a Marjorie/ Cantus meeting scene, I'm pretty sure our entire world would have collapsed, destroying the physical integrity of space/time, so it's prolly best to leave well enough alone

Also, on "Space Frog Follies" I gotta say that it was somewhat of a clever plot for an episode. The writers could have easily made that a Gorg-themed episode, with Junior not wanting to release the Fraggles. Instead, I think they took a more interesting approach with Wembley and Uncle Matt having a pet frog to give to Gobo as a present. Just some food for thought.

 

[Redsonga]

I dunno, I don't think Mokey really changed exactly, even at the start I won't really call her ditzy...I think by the end of the series she was just more sure of herself and showing the things that were already there all along...Of course I have my own ideas about why she was so soft spoken .

I really don't think Cantus planned that..it just seems too all or nothing (which he always seemed very against, just listen to how he talked, very liquid and give and take IMHO)...I mean why make a show about loving each other even though you may be different and then take away someones culture? I really don't buy it .
But then, I hate when other parts of the world go into places that still have kings and then just say 'You're wrong!". If it is not some clearly awful issue like having slaves, and it does not hurt anyone, why not keep it?