Kermit's Swamp Years

[Redsonga]

Well, like I said, I see the muppet world as a universe where over the top is not kiddy but rather common place and taken just as seriously as we would real live villains and so nothing is lost in KSY to me . The flexibility of the muppets IMHO is to be the silly side to over serious moments and the serious side to silly ones, and never lose themselves along the way, and KSY does that just fine in my book .

 

[frogboy4]

Well, like I said, I see the muppet world as a universe where over the top is not kiddy but rather common place and taken just as seriously as we would real live villains and so nothing is lost in KSY to me .

There are degrees of lunacy. It appears you grew up with a different Muppet than I did. The writing and comedy in KSY isn't the caliber I have come to expect with the Muppets. Even MFS is a step up, but we've all got our project faves.

 

[Redsonga]

No, I didn't grow up with a different muppets actually, I grew up with TMM and GMC to (I did grow up and love Muppet Babies like everyone else my age, and still do to). I just saw it a different way than you I think. To me, the muppets were never about appealing to adults vs. being kiddy, they were about over the top fun, escape, and feel good dreams. The idea that something could ever be put into little boxes of age groups by anyone is still an idea I can't get behind.
My favorite muppet movie is still the GMC even though I like KSY, but I like them for the same over the top and heart felt reasons .

 

[frogboy4]

No, I didn't grow up with a different muppets actually, I grew up with TMM and GMC to.

The idea that something could ever be put into little boxes of age groups by anyone is still an idea I can't get behind.

I agree there. That's why I don't like KSY. It's mainly kiddie appeal instead of the wider appeal of the Muppet gang. KSY is what puts the Muppets into a target box, not me or my view of the characters. You like the cute stuff. To each their own taste. KSY is just not Muppets to me = the characters working on a number of levels rather than just one. And GMC had many layers of humor - something in it for everyone. KSY didn't have many (if any) laughs for me.

 

[Redsonga]

I think KSY just shows how they can be and do anything just as well as any other set of characters . Just like muppet babies did...Or at least, being from the A Pup Named Scooby-Doo generation, how I think it did :3. Kiddie or not, adults can still like movies 100% aimed at children, sometimes even more so, even if it does not have all the depth in the world. Sometimes less depth is good because then we fill in the gaps with our imaginations, and sometimes, fanfic :3.

Anyway, I like cute and funny doesn't mean that is all there is to my love of the muppets, many layered or not :3. I'm as thoughtful about the characters as the next fraggle

 

[Drtooth]

Those moments just seemed more suited to a Barney movie than a Muppet movie to me. I don't believe in over-goofing a performance just because Muppets are present. The "for a Muppet movie" designation makes no sense to me.

I see what you're getting at. The problem with the last couple Muppet movies is that they weren't really movies. They were DTV's and Telefilms with lower budgets than the actual films, and as such, they probably had to fill KSY with non-celebrities in all the roles. Even the last couple films had someone popular playing the villain (Oz doesn't count) and they hammed it up to a degree where they came off as cartoon villains, not cartoonish villains. I haven't seen the film in question, but it's something I've seen way too many times to count. Really bad amature actors not taking their roles seriously, even in a comedy. And comedy is where you really have to take your role seriously. It's one thing to screw up a drama (which would make it funnier) but screwing up comedy merits uncomedic results.

 

[frogboy4]

I see what you're getting at. The problem with the last couple Muppet movies is that they weren't really movies. They were DTV's and Telefilms with lower budgets than the actual films, and as such, they probably had to fill KSY with non-celebrities in all the roles. Even the last couple films had someone popular playing the villain (Oz doesn't count) and they hammed it up to a degree where they came off as cartoon villains, not cartoonish villains. I haven't seen the film in question, but it's something I've seen way too many times to count. Really bad amature actors not taking their roles seriously, even in a comedy. And comedy is where you really have to take your role seriously. It's one thing to screw up a drama (which would make it funnier) but screwing up comedy merits uncomedic results.

Exactly. The one thing missing from KSY is -more- adult appeal mixed in with the rest. Most of the Muppet Show cast films and specials have that component. It's the central remark in nearly every review I've read on this DVD. I don't always agree with critics (especially when it comes to Muppets) but I do here.

This is one of the rare exceptions where a production seems intent on limiting Kermit's appeal and I just don't like that. The frog hasn't really resorted to that before, so why here? It almost appears a bit "Elmo-ized" to this old frogboy. I don't think that broadening the film's appeal would have lost any of the younger viewers and it would have potentially been more appealing to other older folk like me. That's always been the thing Jim Henson wanted to do with the Muppet Show and its characters. This isn't the Care Bears or Teletubbies - it's the Muppets and they have quite the legacy. That legacy means a great deal to me. They have always been able to be sentimental without being sappy - to have kid appeal while entertaining everyone.

There’s also the fact that cementing a cultural icon’s ambiguous origin is bound to upset some fans even if done well. To me Kermit’s origins will always be found in Sam & Friends, Ed Sullivan, Sesame Street, the Muppet Show and the Muppet trilogy.

All that said - there are some good comedic moments, skilled puppetry and one heck of a fine musical number (Life as a Pet) that makes the DVD worth the original SRP. I suggest you watch it. I'd be tempted to turn it into a drinking game. You know - a shot every time there's heavy handed sentimentality, buffoonish acting by a human or one of the countless references to a real life dog as being named Rowlf. By the end it would likely entertain anyone. I kid. Still, love it or leave it, KSY is a vid that every Muppet fan should view. I feel it marks a time when the gang lost its way.

I’ve said enough here. My taste skews to classic Muppets. A more inclusive gang of misfits.

 

[Redsonga]

This isn't the Care Bears or Teletubbies - it's the Muppets and they have quite the legacy.

For the love of frogs please don't put the Care Bears in with the Teletubbies, the older 80's cartoon actually has a lot of depth and is not just the word 'ball' repeated over and over .

Anyway, KSY wins points from me from the start for using new characters and not having
Pepe or Rizzo in it..they were really starting to take over every movie .

There’s also the fact that cementing a cultural icon’s ambiguous origin is bound to upset some fans even if done well. To me Kermit’s origins will always be found in Sam & Friends, Ed Sullivan, Sesame Street, the Muppet Show and the Muppet trilogy.

It doesn't take away that at all, it treats it as if he had a normal childhood..I really don't se anything wrong with that..In fact, thinking about the same sort of things with the fraggles is one of my favorite things to do. And when you are that young adults really are bigger than life characters that don't have much depth as people, let alone if you are a frog looking in on human beings for the first time IMHO .

or one of the countless references to a real life dog as being named Rowlf

Golly, that was only one scene in the whole movie you know . And besides, the name can used for dogs in the first place..Anyway, I think it was just a nod to the character since they did not have him back as a muppet yet but they wanted to show that he was remembered. If it was a muppet version of a younger Rowlf I'm sure someone would find a reason to dislike that to *sigh* .

My raking list goes (for the movies):

1)Classic muppet movies (and The Frog Prince)
2) The Muppets at Walt Disney World
3) Family X-Mas
4)Treasure and Carol
5)KSY
6)MRS
7)The very depressing X-Mas
8)0Z

 

[Beauregard]

I'm gunna go out on a limb here and say that one of the reasons that I didn't like the movie as much as the original Muppet movies, was the *winces knowing that people will throw stuff at me* actually Puppets used, and the designs of characters, but especially the felt used to make the characters.

Now that may make me really petty...But I felt (pun intentended) that you could tell these were Puppets, not living breathing foam creations.

 

[frogboy4]

I understand what's being said.

I gave it a chance and just don't like it. There are too many things for me to overlook along with what I view to be pandering to younger auds that I just don't find Muppety. I mentioned the finer moments to be fair. I find KSY to be an exercise in mediocrity at best. There’s something that sets this gang apart from other properties that’s largely missing here. Something that makes the Muppets better, more timeless and for all ages rather than Care Bears, Dora or even Elmo. I’m glad Disney’s not going in this direction.

The whole thing just makes me miss Jerry Juhl. He was the voice of the Muppets and Fraggles too. All signs are good for all things Muppet and Fraggle in the future. I will always look at KSY as Kermit’s growing pains on his way to a new evolution. One that now actually resembles the green guy I know and love.