Censorship

[MrsPepper]

Kevin and Count, you know that I love you guys and nothing but respect and thanks for you, but why are posts/threads always being deleted and edited constantly, without any notice or warnings? Rather than threads being locked or posters being warned, posts just disappear entirely. I have some serious issues with this policy.

I understand that there is an image that needs to be upheld and there needs to be some sort of peace on the forum, but I've noticed this for months upon months now, and I'm starting to feel as if you don't trust us. I've been a member for over 3 years and I feel as if I've more than proved that I know how to debate and conduct myself in a respectful manner, for the most part. Have I not earned the right to (respectfully, as usual) express myself? The last time I checked, a mere disagreement was no reason to lower my post count.

I understand that some of us, myself included, may cross the invisible line when it comes to issues we are passionate about, and an occasional warning to keep conversations in check is absolutely necessary in those situations. But it's starting to remind me of 1984, where the government changes facts about the past to make the present look better to the unsuspecting citizens. When did MC stop being a democracy?

Just for the record, this isn't about any specific incident. This has finally happened enough times that I'm fed up, and feel that this is a serious injustice to the members of the forum.

(For the record, if this post gets edited/deleted, I will be deeply disappointed.)

 

[Luke]

I've noticed a few times things have been closed when they really didn't need to be, like there was nothing seriously wrong and the mod just said "well the conversation is over, move on" or in one thread a Muppeteers contact details were pretty much let onto the forum and then someone wanting to contact some obscure Henson worker looking for help was basically told it was against forum policy to even enquire ... just needs consistency maybe. Overall though it has been very good indeed, a lot of stuff and a lot of people who shouldn't have been on this forum have been dealt with quickly and efficiently over the last few months and any queries ive raised have been answered quickly and dealt with.

 

[frogboy4]

I have noticed a few threads prematurely closed in the past, but not so much lately. The moderators do have a tough job. I wore that hat once and never want to do that again. I'm sure there are others pleased about that too.

I have noted that usually General Discussion threads receive the most editing. I comfortably talk war, politics (decipher my signature), religion, philosophy and social issues quite a bit off the forum.

There's just something about when those things are typed out on a forum that causes turmoil. That seems to be why Muppet Central tries to keep things more Muppety. Makes sense, but I sometimes wish that the conversation could open more.

Passions tend to run high on forums. I am the same here as I am in person but many people take advantage of the anonymity and say things they shouldn't or in ways they shouldn't. It can be challenging to decipher an intended tone when reading posts and knee-jerk reactions run wild. I had difficulty in the past with someone I actually agreed with, but was being disrespectful to me and others anyway.

I'll keep my eye out for censored bits, but I do know from experience that most of what is done around these parts is necessary and not done lightly.

 

[Super Scooter]

I haven't really had an issue with this, other than the occasional thread being closed before it really had to be... but last night I posted a joke in the "Your Thoughts: Studio DC: Almost Live" thread. I jokingly stated, before the special was on, that I was going to "vote now since I won't be around tonight." My post got deleted. Why? There was nothing wrong with my joke. Sure, it wasn't that funny, but there was nothing wrong with it! I don't understand why it was deleted. I wasn't technically muffining the thread. My comment was on topic. It was a comment on how people frequently rate things before they actually see them.

Anyway, if it seems like I'm angry about it, I'm not really. Just confused. I don't get it. No one told me what was wrong with what I said, so what's to keep me from doing it again in the future?

 

[rtgentry]

Maybe the mods need to review a list of who is deleteing what and how often and deal with the offender in a positive way or correcting and teaching.

 

[Luke]

last night I posted a joke in the "Your Thoughts: Studio DC: Almost Live" thread. I jokingly stated, before the special was on, that I was going to "vote now since I won't be around tonight." My post got deleted.

I've had a few issues going maybe 6-12 months back where lines were edited out of a few of my posts, it was a games thing so not really any reason to. Not sure whether it was intentional or if a mod just hit edit instead of reply.

 

[The Count]

Well... There are these little things known as form field boxes for a mod to state the reason why a post is being merged or deleted, or why threads are being deleted. After a bit of initial trial, I fill them out every time I do anything now. Perhaps one of the problems is that those boxes are labeled as "Optional" instead of made mandatory which is what they rully are.
Also, the Report Post feature gets some usage in alerting mods to a problem post/thread or if there's something odd going on. That option should be saved for when rully needed, just contact a mod personally if you believe there's something you noticed that you want to ask about.

Another thing is that people's post totals will be affected when we go in and deal with a banned member's posts. Since we wish to have no record of the offending party, at least as so far as possible, we mods go back and exponge the posts related to that person unintentionally wiping out others' remarks. So you know, it's happend to me too, so noone's immune from post total droppage, not even the mods.

Hope that answers a few questions.
*Flees off back into the sanctuary of the shadows.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I'm glad you asked the question. Some of the posts above have already answered why things are moderated the way they are.

Really, we shouldn't HAVE to censor, edit or delete anything. It's a message board for Muppet fans, and it's just sad to me that there ever is any in-fighting or negativity. I doubt seriously that it's something we, as fans, learned from anything we're here to celebrate. But, it happens way more often than folks notice, I think.

If there are posts that bring about a feeling of negativity or the possibility of in-fighting then those posts need to be dealt with. WAY too often I've seen non-diplomatic posts made that incite flaming or arguing on the message boards. I REALLY don't want to see that happening, regardless how nicely folks try to stick it to one another (and even though the 'nice-stick-it-to-'em' has been delivered, it has still led to in-fighting). By the way, even nice jabbing is considered "baiting."

Seeing or leaving a negative post on the boards tend to send some people away and it's been my position that removing them makes for a better reading experience later--especially while we're visited by folks from JHC, SW, or Diz, and negative posts could likely run away possible new members or those folks from the companies.

I come here to visit and have fun, find out more about other members and their fandom, and learn new and upcoming things about Muppets and products we associate with them. While reading through threads, even if there are 3 or 4 problematic posts you have to sift through to get the jest of the whole thread, it's too many. Am I wrong and alone in that? Do people enjoy reading those posts?

Instead, when there are posts that are even nice about the way they are jabbing at each other, then it's distracting, ruins the fun of why I (and I'm sure others) come to the message board. I have visited some message boards of other things I'm a fan of, and I've never signed up, or left soon after signing on, because of the negativity of the membership. After all, the real world just stinks and is too stressful, and this is my refuge to come play and goof off with folks about something we all love. Isn't it for everyone? I would hope so and that others would want rid of negative posts, too.

I still have yet to understand why folks make jabs at each other on a message board that celebrates everything Jim worked on, but it happens. And, there's no answer why it happens.

Still, each day in my inbox there can be up to 5 reported posts, and I don't act on all of them because some of them might be fair opinions (even if I don't agree) or even folks wanting their own thread closed down. Moderating is a cumbersome job to preserve the sanctity of the forum.

Really, I don't have time to send out warnings to people everytime something goes on. I really don't get to spend a lot of time posting like I used to due to moderating and trying to help keep it a clean, fun, positive place. Still, MC is my very first forum experience having joined in the late 90's and is kind of an internet home to me. Nowadays, it's really the only forum I post on actively anymore.

So, maybe I'm over-protective, trying to keep it all fun and positive for the oldies and newbies? I suppose my question back should be: Do I, as a moderator, leave the negative posts or argumentative threads open and visible? Is that what we're all about here? I don't think it's what we're about, but golly it sure does happen enough. Usually moreso in the fall, close to winter, I've noticed.

As far as thread closures or disappearances, I've no answer. I've merged several threads with the same topic and maybe that's what's going on? Any joke posts disappearing are beyond me. I would welcome a joke post--after all, look at my screen name!

I do know that on the Star Wars Fan Force boards a moderator there can delete, edit, close, and ban at will without ever having to give an answer, reason, or respond back. Talking to a friend of mine about moderating that message board, such a thread as this would be deleted without any response. However, everyone here will have to admit that, since MC started, one thing you've never been without is a caring, responding moderator always willing to help anyway he or she could. I've always hoped I was one of those moderators...

Anyway, I don't know if I've answered anything or not. I've been working in the yard today, it's been really hot outside, and that's my answer. I've probably contradicted myself a lot, too, and painted myself in a corner with some sort of Seussian answer.

 

[MrsPepper]

Some thoughts on your post, Kevin:

I understand your horror on how there could ever be fighting on a Jim Henson forum, but I think I know how it is possible: It's because we all care so much. It's the same reason why I started this thread. We all share the same passion but with differing opinions.

Normally this is a good environment to share those differing opinions but one of my issues was that it seems like there are so many things that aren't allowed to be said. Jim Henson wasn't Jesus, and it isn't blasphemy to have a negative opinion. I feel like some mods just nip posts/discussions/"problems" in the bud in case it turns out bad, instead of allowing discussion to unfold. It's like a panic reflex for crowd control, rather than actual moderating, and it's insulting.

I realise some of the reasoning behind this is because Diz and JH people look at these forums. But honestly? Who are these forums for in the first place? We can all walk on eggshells just because Big Brother might be watching, but then what we're doing here isn't honest and real anymore, and that's one of the reasons why I've always like Muppet Central so much.

I absolutely appreciate you taking so much time to answer me with such deep thought, Kevin. You've been really good to me personally in the past when it comes to moderating and I've always appreciated it. And I do realise that MC is unique in that a thread like this would even be considered, so thank you.

 

[frogboy4]

You're Censored! Just kiddin' ​

I see your point. I have seen a few preemptive strikes that I felt were unnecessary over the past couple years, but a mod's job is a hard one. Some forums have moderators who are too aloof when there’s a problem. Some forums are rather snarky and cliquey with odd initial rules that make them not worth joining. At Muppet Central you can pick your name, respectfully post an opinion or ask a question without feeling silly or singled out. Because it is a place for everyone the moderators take on a challenging balancing act that isn’t attempted on other less friendly/more iron-fisted forums.

I actually like this thread and hope it is kept up as a dialogue for people who get frustrated about censored threads. I believe that MC is just the place where all that can go on in the open.