Did Jareth change Toby's diaper?

[Beauregard]

I'm reminded of Meg in the Phantom of the Opera. In the movie version, it seems obvious to me that she loves the Phantom on first sight...and yet she never gets to meet him, because he is in love with Christine who ultimately rejects him.

I like to think that Meg went after him...

 

[Redsonga]

I'm reminded of Meg in the Phantom of the Opera. In the movie version, it seems obvious to me that she loves the Phantom on first sight...and yet she never gets to meet him, because he is in love with Christine who ultimately rejects him.

I like to think that Meg went after him...

*perks up ears* Ack, movie version of Phantom..so..off..key...or not of key, flat, that is the word. I was in singing many years and have seen it live to but anyhow...

But what reminds you of Meg? The 'all or nothing' love idea ? Or the' if I can't have you I would rather be lonely forever and get a good song out of it' idea?

Now that I think of it, I could so come up with a fanfic of a musical version of Labyrinth *adds to the list of fic ideas*

 

[CensoredAlso]

They really do have more worth to me than myself, they always have...

As far as people versus things, the only thing I can say is, don't cry for something that can't cry for you.

But it's true that words often outlive their authors and that's great.

Most things in this world I think are achieved by balance. You can't be a total sell out, yet neither can you be so rebellious you reject everything. Artists are often convinced they need to be rebellious and take drugs (for instance) in order to be creative, because it means they're different and outside the norm. In reality, their need to be so different just makes their art suffer. They don't realize they can be very different and creative just by respecting themselves in the first place.

We've lost many artists (and their potential work) over the years because they tried a little too hard to reject the world and didn't take care of themselves. It's good and important to be different, but you have to take care of the vessel the work comes from, yourself.

"Pain is a fact of life in this fallen world, and we cannot escape it. In fact, the goal in life is not to get away from the pain of it, but to endure through it, in fact, to triumph over it, while learning the lessons only pain can teach us."

 

[Redsonga]

As far as people versus things, the only thing I can say is, don't cry for something that can't cry for you.

Meh, I always have cried for things over people because things have always be one of the few things I can really count on, people on the other hand hardly ever are there for me. And let me tell you this, it was for not lack of trying on my part, and yes it was with just about every person I have known so I am not just looking at the cup half empty:\.
I'll take my things and ideas thank you very much . Just because we cope in different ways does not I think, make one way better than the other. If everyone agreed, the world would be a boring place...

We've lost many artists (and their potential work) over the years because they tried a little too hard to reject the world and didn't take care of themselves.

Who said anything about using drugs? I know I didn't...
Anyhow...Many of them, I really don't think it was that they rejected the world, I think it was just the other way around. They took so much of the world into themselves, so much of what others thought, that they simply could not handle it anymore. If they did not care about the world they would not take the issues of it so to heart IMHO. Weather they felt they were giving too much or too little of themselves was based in the end I think from listening to their peers wishes that they live up to the name they made for themselves. It was this pressure I think, that stopped many from doing anything about their basic needs.

And on the other hand, like I said before, it can simply not be about rejecting or taking in the outside world at all, it is just a matter of putting your art before yourself period. Foolish? Maybe. A shorter life? Perhaps. Worth it for some? I think so. Selfish? Without a doubt. But without short lived authors and their selfishness and wanting to write for writings sake we would not have many of the classics we do today. Telling those people "don't put so much of yourself into your art and think of yourself or you won't live as long" would be like asking fish not to swim, it just doesn't work that way for them...

Sarah could have been a great writer if she had put her mind to it, and even if the labyrinth had not changed her a bit, I think she would at the least been more of a friend than anything to Toby later in life. That is ten times better than how I have seen many siblings interact when they are older

"Pain is a fact of life in this fallen world, and we cannot escape it. In fact, the goal in life is not to get away from the pain of it, but to endure through it, in fact, to triumph over it, while learning the lessons only pain can teach us."

That's all well and good if the pain is a minor passing thing, but if it strikes us at our core and lives within us everyday, then it is not so much a matter of over coming it as living with it. Some things simply don't go away ever.

 

[CensoredAlso]

That's all well and good if the pain is a minor passing thing, but if it strikes us at our core and lives within us everyday, then it is not so much a matter of over coming it as living with it. Some things simply don't go away ever.

Everyone has pain, period. All the time, every minute. Without exception, no one is spared. And I will not judge who has worse pain than someone else. It takes more guts to live with it, triumph over it, and remain positive despite it. Which I'm sure you have.

The moment we decide something can't be overcome, then it definitely won't be.

And I'm personally angry at all those artists who deprived us their work when they were gone because they didn't respect themselves more than their work. And many of them who survived say they did indeed fall to peer pressure--the peer pressure to be too different (as a reaction to the sell out world of course and that is understandable). There's peer pressure to be a sell out, and to be different. It's best to ignore both.

Nice talking, it has been an interesting discussion, that I couldn't have had with a thing!

 

[Redsonga]

And many of them who survived say they did indeed fall to peer pressure--the peer pressure to be too different (as a reaction to the sell out world of course and that is understandable).

Well, being different is not always something that is done to fit in with peers that also are different, sometimes is something we do alone, not caring if we do or don't fit in anywhere ... I think I don't seek out like minded people in real life as much not because I think I think I am one of a kind or something great, but because I would rather not be judged by them...That is one of the worst feelings IMHO .

Nice talking, it has been an interesting discussion, that I couldn't have had with a thing!

Well, relying on things to keep you sane over people, and talking to things and having them answer back are two different levels of being crazy all together *lol*

Like if Sarah had really only been in her room the whole time, talking to the puppet that looked like Jareth and hearing his voice, that would have been scary.

 

[CensoredAlso]

because I would rather not be judged by them...That is one of the worst feelings IMHO .

Of course it is, that's my opinion too. I hate being judged by people. But I love having the chance to prove them wrong even more!

Well, relying on things to keep you sane over people, and talking to things and having them answer back are two different levels of being crazy all together *lol*

Lol, how true that is.

Like if Sarah had really only been in her room the whole time, talking to the puppet that looked like Jareth and hearing his voice, that would have been scary.

Well actually I think that was the point of the scene with her and the junk lady. All the things that had mattered so much to her were inanimated toys and books. No matter how real Jareth and others seem, they are ultimately a fantasy. They weren't real like her brother, who needed her. And while she was being reuinted with her childhood toys, she was being distracted from saving her brother. She was ensuring that the world would become a darker place because she wasn't living in it or trying to save it.

It's important to have the freedom to be yourself. But that shouldn't be more important than caring for others, especially the innocent.

I don't think we're hear to be free of pain forever. We're here to improve the real world so we don't have to find it so dreadful.

And believe me, I'm a big fan of collecting childhood memories!

 

[Redsonga]

Well actually I think that was the point of the scene with her and the junk lady. All the things that had mattered so much to her were inanimated toys and books. No matter how real Jareth and others seem, they are ultimately a fantasy.

Says the movie at least, on the surface..but I like to think it meant more than that. Perhaps, if the story had been written from a different angle, as in your past, fantasy, and items you hold dear are not enemies you must outgrow that hold you down into the darkness of being a Hateful Selfish Person That Will Never Amount to Anything or Care For Anyone But Yourself (TM), but can help you as a part of you. For a movie trying to go against the idea of all or nothing, it really was very all or nothing in the end IMHO if you go by the plain up front message.

But anyway, that's why I like to think the labyrinth was a real place and not just a dream Sarah had. In makes a lot of sense of you think about it, if the labyrinth is a place that adapts itself to each person that visits it, rather than being limited to one girl who lets go of her past to become a "nice normal" person . It just has too much depth to be just from her IMHO...

 

[CensoredAlso]

Honestly, it's like we saw a different movie, hehe. Never once did I think Sarah ended up a "nice normal person". And I think it meant a great deal under the surface. We just clearly got something entirely different out of it.

 

[Redsonga]

Honestly, it's like we saw a different movie, hehe. Never once did I think Sarah ended up a "nice normal person". And I think it meant a great deal under the surface. We just clearly got something entirely different out of it.

I guess so...
I think Labyrinth just pushed a lot of those very old grade school buttons to me, almost like it was talking to me directly. And that Sarah, who they were trying to say somehow was me on some level just did everything I won't do on every level. Much yelling at the tv set the first time I saw it ...