Sesame Street Old School DVD's: Not For Kids

[CensoredAlso]

Plus alot of the videos with the kids are dated (or no longer seen as a good idea, like the skit of the kids playing in a construction yard on the Old School vol 1 set)...so it makes more sense to use modern ones.

Again, not all kids live in the nice suburbs. A lot of kids still don't have ideal places to hang out. To remove something because it's doesn't comply with PC or "safe" standards does not coincide with the real world. And sometimes kids want to see their own experiences reflected on TV, not an idealized view of the world that basically tells them "your world is not pretty enough to be seen."

And as a child, I remember being shocked if I saw something old or unexpected on TV. But I grew to enjoy most things. And I'm glad my parents didn't instantly remove them because I didn't enjoy them on first sight. Kids today are growing up with the idea that if they've never heard of something, it must be no good, and it should be removed from sight. Believe me, I have seen it, it's not pretty.

I guess when it comes down to it for me, the show today my have the same name, but it just no longer represents the things I stand for. And it's not a generational thing. Some things, in fact many things, are still true no matter how much time has past. I'm not going to trust something based on a name or previous reputation. And I'm not going to give up my values (that they helped instill in the first place) just because the show has changed theirs.

It's like breaking away from your parents or mentor and becoming an adult. At some point, I have to decide to say, "Thank you for all you have taught me, I will be faithful to many of the teachings you have given me over the years. But I am now an adult, and can think for myself. I recognize that sometimes you are wrong. And I will not follow you blindly. And I will raise my children based on what I think is right and not assume other people (or the TV) will do it for me."

 

[MrsPepper]

Again, not all kids live in the nice suburbs. A lot of kids still don't have ideal places to hang out. To remove something because it's doesn't comply with PC or "safe" standards does not coincide with the real world. And sometimes kids want to see their own experiences reflected on TV, not an idealized view of the world that basically tells them "your world is not pretty enough to be seen."

That's a good point, but that's not what I meant at all.

Obviously kids want to see their own environment, and I'm aware that not everyone lives in the suburbs. That's the whole reason that Sesame Street is set in a downtown urban setting. But that's completely different than encouraging kids to climb through steel pipes in a construction yard. (Have you seen the sketch I was referring to? I was pretty shocked when I saw it). If some kids have no where else to play except a construction yard, that's really sad and I wish it wasn't the case, but I think Sesame Street is the last place that should be providing an example of that.

 

[CensoredAlso]

That's a good point, but that's not what I meant at all.

Obviously kids want to see their own environment, and I'm aware that not everyone lives in the suburbs. That's the whole reason that Sesame Street is set in a downtown urban setting. But that's completely different than encouraging kids to climb through steel pipes in a construction yard. (Have you seen the sketch I was referring to? I was pretty shocked when I saw it). If some kids have no where else to play except a construction yard, that's really sad and I wish it wasn't the case, but I think Sesame Street is the last place that should be providing an example of that.

Yes I know what sketch you mean. And I didn't mean to imply you thought everyone lived in the suburbs. I apologize if it seemed that way.

But I still stand by what I say. They weren't exactly encouraging it, they were reflecting reality. If you don't have anywhere else to go, a TV show telling you it's wrong isn't going to be of much help. Personally, if I were in such a situation and I only saw a more middle class setting on TV, I'd start to feel a little left out. (I've already felt that way when seeing upper class settings lol).

And to be honest, I don't find the current show's set all that urban. It's more like "urban chic." Like "yay, it's fun to live in the inner city!" Well, it's not always fun, and the older versions of the show reflected that much more. It featured trash on the street and traffic and grouchy neighbors (who weren't Oscar). It was more real, which allowed to ways to encourage change, like picking up trash.

You're absolute right, they shouldn't encourage playing in a construction site. They could discourage it, and perhaps encourage cleaning up park areas, but in order do that they'd have to actually show a construction site.

Now, the set is closer to Barney's school yard. And the in between segments don't channel much of the inner city either (again, unlike the older versions of the show). Basically instead of showing Sesame Street as a charming but realistic world that we could improve and change, they're now showing Sesame Street as a place that's pretty much already perfect.

I'm just going to say it, Sesame Street ended around 1992. Stepford Street took its place. And I'm not just saying that, because I'm a classic fan, hehe.

I think the quote I mentioned above about the divorce episode proves that they have been moving further and further away from targeting inner city children. Instead of focusing on an "inner city" issue like absent fathers, they chose a "middle class issue" like divorce. Even though the show's own producer fought against the middle class idea.

And if you do live near a safe playground, in most cases kids won't be running off to a construction yard as an alternative. (And if some do, that is the parent's fault).

 

[Muppet Newsgirl]

First of all, let me just say that the disclaimer is, in my eyes, ridiculous. The belief that kids won't understand the material is a blanket judgement, and is kind of patronizing as well. When I was a little kid watching SS in 1990, I saw some of the 70s-era material, and I understood it just fine. Saying that kids won't understand things that happened before their time is an insult to their intelligence.

The thing is, kids are usually a lot smarter and much more resilient than many adults are willing to give them credit for. You don't help a kid grow by just cocooning them in a falsely cheery world.

One more comment and I'll hop off the soapbox - that woman who got the box set for her one-year-old: for heaven's sake, lady, the kid shouldn't be watching television at that age. Sitting down and reading to the kid is much more effective.

 

[CensoredAlso]

First of all, let me just say that the disclaimer is, in my eyes, ridiculous. The belief that kids won't understand the material is a blanket judgement, and is kind of patronizing as well. When I was a little kid watching SS in 1990, I saw some of the 70s-era material, and I understood it just fine. Saying that kids won't understand things that happened before their time is an insult to their intelligence.

The thing is, kids are usually a lot smarter and much more resilient than many adults are willing to give them credit for. You don't help a kid grow by just cocooning them in a falsely cheery world.

I agree, there's this huge myth building up that kids can't handle things. The show is not respecting children by saying things like that. It's treating them like less than human beings who need to be spoon fed everything. As if adults are so much smarter (heh). Contrary to popular belief, this country in my opinion does not treat its children with the proper respect or care in many ways. They we complain when the kids grow up ignorant or unstable.

Kids are growing up being pampered and prevented from really learning things, even apparently by "child experts." I love Psychology, but it's an extremely subjective field. And you can never say one theory is absolutely true for every single kid. People aren't like that, even when they're young. It's great to debate theories, but they don't necessarily reflect real life. So to say "kids are having longer or shorter attention spans" or "kids aren't interested in older shows" is far too simplistic.

One more comment and I'll hop off the soapbox - that woman who got the box set for her one-year-old: for heaven's sake, lady, the kid shouldn't be watching television at that age. Sitting down and reading to the kid is much more effective.

It's true, one year is old is way too young. It's just so hard for parents these days. They have to work all the time and have less and less family to help them out. It's a symptom of a much larger problem unfortunately.

 

[Muppet Newsgirl]

Well, true, parents do have much less spare time on their hands - but it's not the amount of time you have that matters, but what you do with that amount of time.

Had to drop this in, 'cause you know me - Richard Hunt said at Jim's memorial, "Henson's Muppets spoke to the part of kids that was grownup, and to the part of grownups that was childlike."

That shows that Jim and the gang knew full well that children were intelligent human beings who needed to be taken seriously - but that disclaimer at the start of the old school set starts hinting the opposite.

"As if adults were smarter..." very true, heralde. In my experience, kids aren't stupid - but I know of several adults who are.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Well, true, parents do have much less spare time on their hands - but it's not the amount of time you have that matters, but what you do with that amount of time.

Had to drop this in, 'cause you know me - Richard Hunt said at Jim's memorial, "Henson's Muppets spoke to the part of kids that was grownup, and to the part of grownups that was childlike."

That shows that Jim and the gang knew full well that children were intelligent human beings who needed to be taken seriously - but that disclaimer at the start of the old school set starts hinting the opposite.

That's true, it's good to make the time you have with your child count. I get the impression parents do just trust that kids TV shows will be adequate. I don't think we can afford to have that trust nowadays. And that's part of the reason Sesame Street was made accessible to parents in the first place, so they could feel involved.

Absolutely, I used that Richard quote on another Sesame Street awhile ago. That is what Sesame Street represents to me. And if it isn't following that now, then something is wrong there, not with the fans who "won't accept change". Times don't change as much as we think they do. And if something is wrong, we need to say something, not accept the way things are.

 

[mikebennidict]

Yes I know what sketch you mean. And I didn't mean to imply you thought everyone lived in the suburbs. I apologize if it seemed that way.

But I still stand by what I say. They weren't exactly encouraging it, they were reflecting reality. If you don't have anywhere else to go, a TV show telling you it's wrong isn't going to be of much help. Personally, if I were in such a situation and I only saw a more middle class setting on TV, I'd start to feel a little left out. (I've already felt that way when seeing upper class settings lol).

And to be honest, I don't find the current show's set all that urban. It's more like "urban chic." Like "yay, it's fun to live in the inner city!" Well, it's not always fun, and the older versions of the show reflected that much more. It featured trash on the street and traffic and grouchy neighbors (who weren't Oscar). It was more real, which allowed to ways to encourage change, like picking up trash.

You're absolute right, they shouldn't encourage playing in a construction site. They could discourage it, and perhaps encourage cleaning up park areas, but in order do that they'd have to actually show a construction site.

Now, the set is closer to Barney's school yard. And the in between segments don't channel much of the inner city either (again, unlike the older versions of the show). Basically instead of showing Sesame Street as a charming but realistic world that we could improve and change, they're now showing Sesame Street as a place that's pretty much already perfect.

I'm just going to say it, Sesame Street ended around 1992. Stepford Street took its place. And I'm not just saying that, because I'm a classic fan, hehe.

I think the quote I mentioned above about the divorce episode proves that they have been moving further and further away from targeting inner city children. Instead of focusing on an "inner city" issue like absent fathers, they chose a "middle class issue" like divorce. Even though the show's own producer fought against the middle class idea.

And if you do live near a safe playground, in most cases kids won't be running off to a construction yard as an alternative. (And if some do, that is the parent's fault).

Think we're taking this a bit to far.


Playing in a construction site has nothing to do with where one lives.

 

[Drtooth]

One more comment and I'll hop off the soapbox - that woman who got the box set for her one-year-old: for heaven's sake, lady, the kid shouldn't be watching television at that age. Sitting down and reading to the kid is much more effective.

Once again, that was a joke on my part. Far too often have I seen first time parents comment on how their one year olds don't want to sit down and listen to "Sesame Road" or "Born to Add." As if a one year old understands the world around them, let alone Beatles and Billy Idol music parodies.

But I have to say, I'm in between what everyone is saying. Herald, the Stepford Street comment really hit the nail on the head, and here's why. In the early 70's, what they were doing was bold. Almost an outsider movement. But as time passed, they got more and more excepted into the mainstream, to the point where they were welcomed by the establishment. And needless to say, when you're accepted into the establishment, you become the establishment. The Simpsons is another perfect example of this. A show once denounced by educators and religious people has been accepted by them (to the point where I hear tell a cult of religious Christian followers actually dress up as Flanders when they go to Church).

However, anything where there are kids playing around unsupervised would seriously be frowned upon. While SS isn't as realistic as it used to be...well... if it were realistic Big Bird wouldn't leave his nest without Gordon, Maria, Bob, and several others having to watch him. We do live in infuriatingly scary times. The "watch out for strangers" thing has now become "everyone's out to molest you, even people you know." And that's the lightest thing. I'd kill to see SS tackle that sort of thing, but how would you do it without kids being paranoid?


I still stand by my earlier comments that a lot of filmed skits may not work just on the dated level, but when it comes to certain animations and post 1973 muppet skits (when the characters looked quite the same as they do today) there shouldn't be too much trouble. Sure, certain skits may raise a red flag, though. Look at the Sinister Sam skit in which he has an "itchy trigger finger." I'm surprised that one even made it in even at the time, having a large reference to guns. But several things would still work.

The only thing that would keep little kids from liking these box sets is probably a lack of Elmo, which they take as a given (see the thread, "the Episodes without EW didn't go over too well"). Other than that, if you have kids and talk to them about it, there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Now come on those old number skits aren't goonna frighten kids.


Think you're over-reacting.

I will meet you half way. it is silly to think that kids would be bothered by Jazz numbers... but then again, a great deal of adults I know find it creepy. That's not to say Pinball Number count or (better yet) Bud Luckey's number song animations would fit just fine in the new show.

But what it all comes down to is semantics, conflicting studies, and mainstream vs individual tastes. I'm not doubting for a minute there are children that would love to see older, EW-less SS episodes. I mean, a lot of classic fans here weren't even born in the 70's or 80's (while a lot of us were there at the beginning. i was about 1982, so I'm about halfway in). But there are kids that do like Elmo, and that's fine. It's the overall educational value of the show that bugs me a little, but it seems SW really wants to get off the track and do things the old fashioned way. Problem is, will the EW fans let them?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Think we're taking this a bit to far.


Playing in a construction site has nothing to do with where one lives.

You're entitled to your opinion, and perhaps I got really into the writing, lol. But I don't take back what I said.

Well, it is true that anyone can play in a construction site if they really wanted to. However, the standard of living can have a lot to do with it. And I'm not putting anyone down by saying that.

That's true DrTooth, the same thing sort of happened to The Simpsons. One of the draw backs of success I guess! lol

All I can do is repeat what I've been saying. Kids are young, but they should not be underestimated.

But I just wanted to say I think this discussion has been very interesting and everyone's contributions have been great.