Separating the art from the artist: Is it always possible?

[Colbynfriends]

It's not about being betrayed, you have to look at it more pragmatically. Be a little robotic about it, for now. If the allegations are true, then he's pretty disturbed. This isn't normal "guy acts like jerk" stuff (no offense to guys ), this is strange behavior, like "he should been diagnosed by a professional" strange. If it's true, he ought to be punished, but I'm not going to waste my anger when clearly the guy isn't all there (at least in my layman opinion).

You do have a point, are all the allegations true? Who knows. I feel it's legitimate that some feel betrayed, and I in a way do too. One of their idols and one of the first celebrities they knew of from an early stage is, at the very least, being accused of these awful things, and we can't help but think in our mind "oh god did he do x did he do y". Just the thought of it I think sends people down that road.
As much as I hope what they're saying he did, he didn't do, I think our minds will always kind of wander. Especially with so many people having already came forward.

 

[Drtooth]

It's not about being betrayed, you have to look at it more pragmatically. Be a little robotic about it, for now. If the allegations are true, then he's pretty disturbed. This isn't normal "guy acts like jerk" stuff (no offense to guys ), this is strange behavior, like "he should been diagnosed by a professional" strange. If it's true, he ought to be punished, but I'm not going to waste my anger when clearly the guy isn't all there (at least in my layman opinion).

To me it isn't an allegations are true/untrue thing. It's that he really seems very... let me put it to you this way. He seems kinda unnaturally smug about the allegations. It somehow manages to suggest "I did it, but I'm too powerful a celebrity that I'd be taken down by this," where as I'd say someone who didn't do it would be a lot more miserable looking and take the hint. To me it's very likely he did this but feels that it isn't wrong, so he's not even apologetic in the "I'm sorry you think I did it, but trust me, I didn't" sort of way. It's unnerving.

About the question of a double standard, it's all about image. Cosby had this conservative attitude which rubbed a lot of people in the business the wrong way, so they don't mind watching him crash and burn. Whereas with Woody Allen, first off he always seemed neurotic and weird, it wasn't that surprising, heh. Plus he married the girl and she didn't seem miserable, that made it easier for people to at least tolerate, if not support. But second, he's liberal. That does go a long way in the business (and it's the same with conservative circles).

To me the difference is simple. Woody Allen never tried to educate, nor did he ever market himself directly as a voice for children. Cosby always made some good points, but sometimes he was a little...off putting, like the time he chastised a student for getting a 2.5 grade average and supposedly saying it's okay "if you have a mental disorder." Not to mention the fact that he once got really angry and sent a letter to the Coca-Cola for daring to change the formula back because he felt all the New Coke commercials he did would hurt his credibility. And my personal favorite, being completely humorless about Justin Roiland's "House of Cosbys" web cartoons. We're talking about an animator that turned his crude Back to the Future parody into the best show on adult swim without Universal batting an eye. So there is something I have to admit I dislike about him, but that's the whole "celebrities are complicated" thing.

Woody Allen...eh... what he did was also morally suspect, but he never took a moral stance the way Cosby did. His stuff was always for adults, and there are those who still genuinely think what he did was gross but can still enjoy his films from the level of "he's a good film maker." I did raise my eyebrow that he cast Andrew Dice Clay in a role, but that's about it.

And then I feel a little odd about Mike Tyson. There are those who still hold the fact that he sexually assaulted someone when he was a young boxer. And I have to admit, that was a terrible thing, but Mike's been trying very hard to put that behind him. I think it does hurt the reception of his new adult swim cartoon and his cameos in the Hangover films. But he generally seems that he knew that boxing is an aggressive sport and aggressive sports cause you to be aggressive outside of sports. Like, no wonder he bit Holyfield's ear off. And frankly, I think we all forgot about the assault when that happened because...it was the most hilarious thing ever at the time. I still remember just falling to the floor and laughing at it. But now he has that cartoon show which shows he at least has a sense of humor about himself and it contains enough Adam Westing that you're rooting for the guy's self change.

So I think that's the one thing Cosby's lacking. Awareness and a willingness to say that even if these are just all allegations that he is at least sorry things came to this. But the fact is, what makes it eerie is that it's clear that if he did do these things he had a history of it to the point where he had a stand up routine about Spanish Fly and a TV sitcom episode about BBQ sauce that makes people sleepy and promiscuous. It almost feels that he doesn't actually know its wrong and passed out women is his fetish. But to me the only real hypocrisy about this is if anyone finds Quagmire from Family Guy doing that funny.

 

[CensoredAlso]

To me it isn't an allegations are true/untrue thing.

I simply feel an obligation to say that in fairness to anyone accused of a crime. Doesn't matter who it is. Even if a person is likely guilty, we can't let that principle go.

It's that he really seems very... let me put it to you this way. He seems kinda unnaturally smug about the allegations.

Like I said, if he's disturbed, he probably doesn't have much insight (Again, layman's opinion). That's why I'm saying it makes more sense to look at this from an intellectual distance, rather than emotionally.

 

[fuzzygobo]

I guess it's still difficult for me, being emotionally attached to Cosby. It's shameful if one allegation is true. If all fifty (how many are we up to now?) are true, more's the pity.

I agree with Drtooth. Part of me still wants to believe he's innocent and all the accusers want is a chunk of his bank account. But it's hard to ignore this... smugness? arrogance? that he's above the law, or if any allegations are true, he could kiss them off with a good lawyer and a tidy paycheck.
If he is still all there, if delusion/dementia hasn't set in, and he hasn't shown any remorse for what he's done, then if any criminal charges are brought against him makes it slightly easier to accept. He could win a lot more people over to his side just by being humble. "I screwed up, I hurt these women, I tried to deny it, I'm ready to face my consequences". He'd still have to pay for what he did, but people may be more forgiving of him, and his fall from grace might not be so high.

 

[mr3urious]

However, Fat Albert is still one of my favorite cartoons of all time, just with an asterisk. His name is plastered all over it, he's one of the main characters, he narrates it. But to deny the show completely is to throw out the work of those who actually shaped the show, including everyone's favorite cartoon writer and creator of everyone's favorite female comic book star, Paul Dini.

I don't believe the Nick Jr. series Little Bill deserves to be blacklisted either for the same reasons as Fat Albert. It was largely the work of others (including our very own Sonia Manzano as a writer!) with Cosby only creating the concept and doing one voice role.

 

[Drtooth]

I believe Blackish said the most poignant thing they could about him without making him out to be a jokes. He did stand for something and when the allegations came out, it was devastating.

I don't believe the Nick Jr. series Little Bill deserves to be blacklisted either for the same reasons as Fat Albert. It was largely the work of others (including our very own Sonia Manzano as a writer!) with Cosby only creating the concept and doing one voice role.

Little Bill doesn't deserve it either for one simple reason. It wasn't one of those Nick Jr. Shows from that time that did that Dora thing. At least to an obnoxious extent.

Part of me still wants to believe he's innocent and all the accusers want is a chunk of his bank account. But it's hard to ignore this... smugness? arrogance? that he's above the law, or if any allegations are true, he could kiss them off with a good lawyer and a tidy paycheck.

That's the problem I'm having with him. Let's say he isn't guilty. He sure the heck isn't acting like it. His body language is incriminating him, and his smug self centeredness about the whole deal comes off pretty disgusting.

 

[LittleJerry92]

Bumping this up cause I wanna offer my thoughts on some of this:

There are certain cases I've been upset with hearing unfortunate stories with some people I once looked up to.

Some examples - Bill Cosby, Morgan Freeman and Azis Ansari.

I always looked up to them as actors and people. But after hearing about their sexual assault stories, I can only look up to them as actors because they all had some wonderful shows and movies. It's something I'm training myself to do.

 

[D'Snowth]

Wait . . . Azis Ansari is now on that list? I have literally never heard of that until now. When did that happen?

But as I've been saying, while nothing to do with sexual assault (but still some examples of misogyny), I still enjoy classic Nostalgia Critic, even though my overall opinion of Doug Walker as a producer and internet celebrity has changed for the worse.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

I'm not going to stop enjoying something because someone involved with it did something questionable. i might not like the person, but i can still like their work.

I dont want to be a bitter old lady who hates everything

 

[LittleJerry92]

Wait . . . Azis Ansari is now on that list? I have literally never heard of that until now. When did that happen?

Last January. It was brought up on the state of the world thread.