The Nostalgia Critic Thread Lives Again!

[D'Snowth]

Blip.tv is no more? Eh, that site never worked properly anyway, even though others kept trying to persuade me to migrate to them . . . I guess now it doesn't make a difference.

 

[mr3urious]

NC did a review of Cats & Dogs yesterday, and I agree with him that Mr. Tinkles was the best character in the film, though I thought Jeff Goldblum was pretty entertaining as the dad, too, albeit by virtue of being Jeff Goldblum.

And I'm a little disappointed that he passed up the scene where Mr. Tinkles was put on his comatose owner's lap, causing him to go into cardiac arrest from being so happy and prompting the maid to dramatically pound his chest to restart his heart. It was so morbid yet hilarious to me, and I would have liked to see Critic's reaction to it.

 

[Drtooth]

While not exactly the Nostalgia Critic, I've been watching a LOT of Cinema Snob as of Monday and only due to curiosity about something posted in the So Bad It's Horrible TVTropes page. I've noticed a couple things.

Christian alternative movies are terrible. Not so much in quality (though...yeah), not so much that they are religious, but the fact that their "romantic" movies replace mainstream film raunchiness with something far worse. Abusive relationships and dangerous attitudes towards. Especially in War Room, about someone with a verbally abusive husband who willfully cheats on her repetitively who has an old, overly religious stereotype of an old black woman basically say "stay with your abusive, terrible person of a husband, and pray the Satan away so you don't do anything hedonistic like divorce him and get a restraining order."

I'm pretty much sure that's the least Christian thing I've ever heard. I'm actually disgusted by the film's Bizarro Earth Lifetime telefilm logic. And apparently the Cinema Snob got crap for pointing out how awful the movie's message is. JEEZ! No wonder Vegitales is such a highly recognized mianstream hit for Christian programming. Even the non-kids Christian entertainment is disturbing.

The first Cinema Snob episode I watched was the "Ghosts Can't Do it" film. I can honestly say that if anyone has to run attack ads against Donald Drumph, the best possible thing they can do is just buy ad time and run all his scenes from that movie with the caption "This guy wants to run the country."

 

[D'Snowth]

Speaking of which, that reminds me that there's actually such a thing as the Nostalgia Christian out there: he's a complete rip-off of Nostalgia Critic in that he dresses the exact same way (same glasses, same black cap, same black blazer, same white t-shirt, same skewed red tie), and his format is pretty much ripped off of the Critic's reviews too . . . he just doesn't fly off the handle, or go into profane tourettes-esque meltdowns, or do anything else that actually makes the Critic funny. Instead, he reviews Christian shows and movies, and constantly bemoans why more Christian media never achieves mainstream success.

The problem with that, however, is since the early 1960s, we live in a very politically correct country where we have to walk on eggshells and bend over backwards to make sure atheists remain happy, hence why prayer in school is no longer mandatory, nor is listening to Christian rock or anything like that in public, and you can't talk about God on network TV unless it's played for laughs (like that SEINFELD episode where Puddy was suddenly religious out of nowhere), because it's all otherwise offensive to the point where it's like if you said the N-word out in public in an area full of African-Americans. So because of that, of course Christian media is never going to achieve mainstream success, because it's not allowed in mainstream: why else do shows like VEGGIETALES get dumped on video, or low-budget afternoon shows with poorly-worked puppets are relegated to public access stations, or Lifetime-esque movies are sent straight to DVD? Even if Christian media does get a wider release, it's usually in select theaters . . . with the exception of PASSION OF THE CHRIST, if only because Mel Gibson was such a powerhourse producer/director at the time.

 

[Drtooth]

It's never going to achieve mainstream success if they continue to pass off terrible messages and come off as whiny and defensive. Vegitales is one of the few of acclaim because it's both well done and gentle and friendly enough in the message that it's approachable and enjoyable. No matter what message you're trying to spread, be it religious, environmental, or whatever, the louder, angrier and more misguided, it's going to come off as nasty, entitled, and defensive. That's why I'm always complaining about how Captain Planet was a bigger success than Toxic Crusaders, which was the better, friendlier show. Especially when Ted Turner got his hands in CP and made it go from mildly preachy and optimistic to batcrap insane enough to actually turn its viewers into hardline Neo-Cons because of how freaking idiotic and up its own butt it was. And I can't even blame them. I almost swear it was a conspiracy theory to denounce environmentalists and climate change, almost if it wasn't for Ted freakin' Turner! You want to get people to agree with you or see your point, you have to be friendly.

I could go on a large paragraph about agreeing with Cinema Snob's thoughts about how the Anti-Rock propaganda video actually works the other way (the kid becomes judgmental and nasty about how much he hates something he absolutely loved), but that's a propaganda piece. Those things never become popular. Now, I understand the need for alternative media, but if they want to achieve success outside of fundamentalists, they need to actually know how entertainment works. It's like what Ben said in his Oddity Archive about the odd Conservative Folk countermovement, it's not that there wasn't a market for it, it's that there was a lack of talent. And considering there's soooo many YT videos on awful, low budget religious puppet shows (some with store bought Ventriloquist puppets), I'd say that's the major problem. But it has always been a problem since the beginning of media. The Charlie Brown Christmas special had Schulz actively fight for the message. But the message was also friendly and well done enough that the fight meant something. Not to mention most mainstream religious organizations don't need to have alternative entertainment and can either find a message or use a message from something mainstream.

But aside from that, any movie made by anyone for any reason that promotes an abusive relationship as love is despicable. The snob was even handed in saying that Old Fashioned and Thirty Shades of Grey are both terrible films promoting horrible relationships at love because they're written by people who don't know how relationships work. Now, War Room hits hard because I knew a very abusive relationship where the wife refused to divorce her overbearing, controlling, and abusive husband until the situation became impossible to ignore. And she was...well...fairly dormat-ish enough that she still suffered her monster of a husband well after the thing went through. And he's flirty and terrible to this day. My mother had to keep advising her, and even then she didn't listen until it was too late. Thankfully, she moved far out of state, away from him. I'm sure he's still bullying her for money even though he's the one that works and still has a job. On the other side, my neighbor had a horrible wife who constantly cheated on him. Difference being is they divorced quickly.

My point is, while I get the whole "sacredness of marriage" and trying to get a relationship to work (no relationship is easy, not with family, not with friends). That I can respect if it was about bumpy roads in an otherwise loving relationship that say "stick with it and you'll find happiness." But War Room's moral is listen to someone who doesn't have the same experience with relationships as you do, and sitting in a closet crying and praying will solve everything. That's...that's not Christian. That's the glurgiest glurge that ever glurged. If these companies want to make Christian alternatives mainstream, they certainly need better talent and actual inspirational messages than these.

 

[D'Snowth]

That's why I'm always complaining about how Captain Planet was a bigger success than Toxic Crusaders, which was the better, friendlier show.

And ironically, that show was adapted from a very R-rated (albeit, campy) movie franchise. Funnily enough, like with TMNT 1987, Chuck Lorre was also involved with TOXIC CRUSADERS as a writer - but then again, both cartoons were produced by Fred Wolf, so that kind of makes sense.

But relationships are always depicted poorly in entertainment, irregardless of what they're trying to achieve in terms of the message they're trying to get across: the stick with an abusive spouse because divorce is a sin message is, like you say, a very poor example of a Christian message trying to get across. I mean, true, according to Christian beliefs, divorce is considered a sin, however, it's also according to Christian beliefs that there exceptions to the rule, such as sexual immorality on the part of the spouse . . . now, I guess evidentally, abusive spouses are not grounds for divorce according to some or many Christians, but like you say, if gets to a point where damage is practically irreversible and the victim is messed up for life because of it, then yeah, that should be an exception to the rule as well.

Then, you've also got relationship entertainment where the very notion of relationships are wildly idealized and fantasy for the sake of making it seem all the more romantic when they're hardly realistic and probable at all. How many times have we seen this story: a totally photogenic and beautiful girl is lonely because she doesn't have a man, then falls madly in love at the first sight of the insanely handsome and equally photogenic man she encounters? Then there's two different kinds of scenarios we have: the girl's friends will either try to discourage her from pursuing him because he's out of her league (a service man, someone who travels a lot, someone who's "married to his work," has a higher social status, whatever) and they want to save her from the inevitable heartbreak she'll endure from him not wanting anything to do with her; or the girl's friends will encourage her like crazy because she's finally found the man of her dreams and if she doesn't go after him she'll lose him forever. Then from the man's perspective, his friends either discourage him from pursuing her because they think she's a nobody who isn't good enough for him, and that he could do a lot better than her; or they encourage him to pursue her if only because she'll probably be willing to sleep with him and for guys, sex is the only thing that's worth being in a relationship for. I mean how many movies have we gotten that's spun-off of THE NOTEBOOK with plots like that? Oh, and apparently THE NOTEBOOK is getting an undeserving sequel after all of these years.

Then, of course, there's also the trope that relationships in entertainment need to be kept strictly in the confines as a "will they or won't they" couple, because if the relationship progresses and the two get involved, then all of the sudden everything becomes "boring" because there's no longer any conflict to keep things interesting.

 

[D'Snowth]

Okay, I'm gonna be honest here: I usually will defend certain movies the Critic rips to shreds as being nowhere near as bad as he makes them out to be, and in all honesty, I've always said ROCK-A-DOODLE was one of those movies; I remember it fondly as a kid, and I always found it to be one of Don Bluth's more imaginative (literally) movies. I actually watched the movie again for the first time in years last week . . . and . . . heh!

I still don't agree that it's a bad movie, and I still don't agree that it's one of Bluth's worst (that distinction will forever go to A TROLL IN CENTRAL PARK) . . . but being older and being able to really compare it to other Bluth movies, I can see now why ROCK-A-DOODLE really is a weaker Bluth movie: the thing that set Bluth apart from other animation companies (especially Disney) - particularly when he rose to prominence in the 80s - was that his movies always had an edge to them that other animated movies of the time lacked: there was always a level of darkness to them that gave the movies a certain maturity, yet were still appropriate enough for kids to watch (much like Brad Bird's Pixar movies). ROCK-A-DOODLE lacks all of that. There's still a level of darkness (no pun intended) with the Grand Duke and his owl henchmen, but like the rest of the movie as a whole, they're a lot more lighthearted (especially with all of their little impromptu musical numbers that the Critic loathed so much). That, and much of the action in the movie and whatever brief little battles between the protagonists and antagonists there is a lot more slapstick and silly . . . it's kind of like the complaint a lot of people had about John Hughes towards the end of his career in that his movies went from being coming-of-age stories with an edge to being fluffy kiddy fare post-HOME ALONE.

That being said, I still say ROCK-A-DOODLE is a decent movie, but seeing it again as an adult, heh, I guess I wouldn't say it's a masterpiece, or even a great movie for that matter. Still, like just about all of Bluth's movie, it has some wonderfully beautiful animation, and I admit I do like the songs and music (even though the Critic says this was one of the problems with the movie, but we know he always hates musicals anyway).

 

[Drtooth]

But relationships are always depicted poorly in entertainment, irregardless of what they're trying to achieve in terms of the message they're trying to get across: the stick with an abusive spouse because divorce is a sin message is, like you say, a very poor example of a Christian message trying to get across. I mean, true, according to Christian beliefs, divorce is considered a sin, however, it's also according to Christian beliefs that there exceptions to the rule, such as sexual immorality on the part of the spouse . . . now, I guess evidentally, abusive spouses are not grounds for divorce according to some or many Christians, but like you say, if gets to a point where damage is practically irreversible and the victim is messed up for life because of it, then yeah, that should be an exception to the rule as well.

Even if the movie had no message and wasn't made to fill a need for something, I can't get behind abusive relationships. There are a few examples of more mainstream (just they flopped is all) films he reviewed that had terrible terrible relationships in there that are just as cringeworthy. Endless Love was...creepy. And What a waste of James Spader. And holes are poked in other movies with relationships in them, pointing out how the protagonists are designated heroes of sorts.

I could also add that the ending of War Room calls for Christians to rise up and make the country a Theocracy, but frankly I'm just going to wave that one off. Though I reiterate that maybe if there's less blatant propaganda films and more loving, gentle stuff like Vegitales or even 3-2-1 Penguins, there's a lot of room for Christian media. Though I'd love to see the adult (but not in that way) version of something like that.

But enough about that. I'm going to the extreme opposite of the spectrum. The in that way adult. If you think I'm going to link any of them, you're mad, and I'm only going to skim through the details.

The "Mario" adult "parody?" Nintendo was right into buying up the rights to that. Probably should have bought up every single copy and destroyed it. This film seems to take more cues from the already inaccurate Mario movie. Their Koopa equivalent is clearly influenced by Dennis Hopper's take on Koopa. Even the titles use something akin to the look of the movie's logo, only cheap. And I agree confused with the Snob here... why did they make Koopa sound like John Stocker's Toad from the Mario cartoons? But If the movie couldn't even get anything basically right about the Mario games, why would the adult parody of the film based on the games get anything right outside of a passing reference here and there?

However, I caught the review of the Beavis and Butt-head parody, and I give them credit for trying. Beavis and Butt-head was a terrible concept for one of those movies for two reasons. First off, they totally could have done that sort of thing in the show. It's not like it was for kids to begin with, and the signature gag of the series was Butt-Head saying "Heh Heh! You said [double entendre]." Secondly, well... as Beavis and Butt-head fans can attest to, they're never gonna score... Why would you use those kids of characters for something about scoring for the sake of scoring? But credit where credit is due. It looks like someone on the production team actually was a fan of the show. They did attempt to recreate the stunted, limited animation of the cartoon in live action. Unfortunately, that's bigger uncanny valley than the prosthetics ever could have been. It means a lot of odd, stiff poses and awkward closeups. And it does make use of the Coach and mentions Todd and how much they love him, even though Todd routinely beats the crap out of them. I share with the disappointment though. They clearly had no money to get another actor in to be Todd and pretended to censor the sequence. Cuz that's what you want in your adult "entertainment." To have to read and imagine anything. I'm sure there are plenty of fan fics out there that have the scene with Todd I'd imagine in. Then again, maybe that wasn't such a good idea anyway.

 

[D'Snowth]

Heck, check it out, Channel Awesome recently released a blooper reel from NC's FTB review:

I honestly wondered how many takes it took for him to get that mouthful right.

 

[mr3urious]

Doug did an editorial on The Mask comics and how the first couple of them were extremely gory compared to the films, and that got me thinking: maybe an reboot with all that graphic violence intact would be perfect right now. Deadpool's rousing success shows that an R-rated comic book film can be viable, and maybe it can go into the horror comedy route that was originally intended for the Jim Carrey film.