The Muppets Episode 2 - Hostile Makeover

[Ruahnna]

That sounds way too much like the uninformed idiotic views of the schmoes that don't understand the characters like the majority of us do.

I have to say, Duke, that that was quite rude and seemed uncalled-for.

Kermit's purity of heart was a huge part of the ideology of the muppets. His turning aside Doc Hopper with gentle words about friendship and his response to the loss of their theatre in "The Muppets" by reiterating that they are a family, and that's what really matters, are two simple examples. Could he be snarky or mean or insensitive or rude--of course. He is a very human frog. But contrast the way he spoke of Miss Piggy when Tony Randall accidentally turned her into a statue to he way he's speaking about her now. Contrast Kermit's gentleness in reminding Fozzie that HE is more important than money, or even the theater, with the way Fozzie is portrayed now. Consider Piggy showing up from France to save the theater and the show because it was important to Kermit--and to all those other muppets she pretends not to know--when she didn't have to and there was mostly an expectation of heartache.

They have changed. They have changed, and not for the better. The muppets came roaring back with "The Muppets," but "the muppets" may do enough harm to sink our beloved characters beyond the hope of reviving them as anything more than shells of their former selves.

 

[Blue Frackle]

Does anyone else find Kermit's facial expressions seem over done? It's as if they are happening too often.

Yes. It doesn't bother me, but yes.

 

[Muppetboy09]

The muppets came roaring back with "The Muppets," but "the muppets" may do enough harm to sink our beloved characters beyond the hope of reviving them as anything more than shells of their former selves.

I don't think anything will "kill off" the Muppet franchise in the near future. I think that there are enough people out there that have faith in the characters, and after MMW being a flop but Disney still making content with the Muppets shows that they have faith in the franchise too!

 

[dwayne1115]

Well the show is only in its 3rd week and already being picked up in 122 different countries. Including Russia and the Middle East. So they must be doing something right.

 

[Ruahnna]

Well the show is only in its 3rd week and already being picked up in 122 different countries. Including Russia and the Middle East. So they must be doing something right.

The Kardashians are also popular with the public. So they must be doing something right? Popularity does not equal doing something right.

Don't try to convince me something is "good" just because everybody is doing it. (I teach middle school.) Tell me why I shouldn't be sad when Kermit's mean instead of just snarky and Piggy's stupid instead of just naïve and trying to appear more sophisticated than she is. Tell me why it isn't tragic that Fozzie has lost his moral center. Tell me why I shouldn't want to cry when Scooter's basically enabling the band?

I'm not trying to start an argument--I'd like a reasoned discussion of what has happened/been done to our wonderful, beloved characters in the name of trying to make them more relevant.

 

[dwayne1115]

I really don't know. I think we have kind of touched on it a little bit in this thread when we have been talking about the folks writing the show. Yes it is true that Bill Pardy did work with Jim and has wrote things for the Muppets in the past. However he has not stayed with the Muppets. He has not seen what they have become.,or what they really are. I think he mostly wrote for the Jim Henson Hour which is completely different then the Muppet Show. Pardy is the shows main writer,and has brought in people with his same kind of mainstream everyone is out for number one shallow thinking mentality. I think that Disney-ABC had,and still has a lot of faith in the Muppets, but I feel they the wrong writers writing the show.

 

[ploobis]

Hey Friends,

You can now watch "Hostile Makeover" for Free on Hulu.com!

It looks like you can watch a previous episode on Hulu.com for Free after the Newest episode airs!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/848761#i0,p0,d0

 

[jobi71]

The Kardashians are also popular with the public. So they must be doing something right? Popularity does not equal doing something right.

Don't try to convince me something is "good" just because everybody is doing it. (I teach middle school.) Tell me why I shouldn't be sad when Kermit's mean instead of just snarky and Piggy's stupid instead of just naïve and trying to appear more sophisticated than she is. Tell me why it isn't tragic that Fozzie has lost his moral center. Tell me why I shouldn't want to cry when Scooter's basically enabling the band?

I'm not trying to start an argument--I'd like a reasoned discussion of what has happened/been done to our wonderful, beloved characters in the name of trying to make them more relevant.

One possible positive outcome of their popularity is that there may be additional Muppet videos/productions/films and/or less studio oversight allowing them to return a bit more to the characters you and many others fondly recall. If these potential future productions continue with the tone that you do not like, well then maybe that's not a positive.

As for the portrayal of the main characters the distinction between snarky and mean is a thin one. I'm not talking about cruel that's a big leap. But I still find Kermit in the wheelhouse of his previous self. Miss Piggy for me is a more problematic character. She is a character of wild extremes and it is through these extremes we can then settle on the nice middle ground. She can be selfish (she left Kermit on their date in The Muppet Movie). She can be insecure (She paid off the audience in the Dom DeLuise episode). I don't think either of these are necessarily bad traits. When push comes to shove I bet Piggy would pick Kermit and being a big star in a small pond (no pun intended) over being a major Hollywood star. However, she wants both and therefore needs to sometimes sacrifice one for the other. I think writing for Miss Piggy is one of the toughest assignments in the world. She has two very strong objectives and sometimes they mesh and sometimes they conflict. Jerry Juhl knew that exact spot where they meet. In my mind it's almost unfair to ask other writers to duplicate. Fozzie losing his mental compass. I am not exactly sure what you mean - is it his taking the candy dish? I think Fozzie is insecure enough to want to have a piece of physical evidence to show Gonzo, Rizzo et al. that he was at Jay Leno's. Later he realizes what he did was wrong and planned to return it. I was not happy with the repeat with him taking the rooster figure. So a better resolution there was needed. As for Scooter I too thought maybe he provided the "happiness" for the band. He did for 5 seasons serve as a traffic cop for all the chaos backstage. But I then began to think the band could find "happiness" on their own. And I think Scooter was trying to help Bobo. I hope you view this as part of a discussion rather than an argument. I think overall I am enjoying the show more than you but I hear your concerns and agree with some. For me the show is good and sometimes very good but it has yet to make the leap to great. Except for Big Mean Carl being the receptionist. That is great.

 

[WebMistressGina]

I am unable to understand what the Kardashians or the Real Housewives have to do with anything. Likewise American Idol. What point were you trying to make? Just because those things exist doesn't mean I have to watch them. Why would I? Surely we can ALL find something better to do with our time.

I don't know if you'd actually like the world I live in. If you'd like to live in "my world," it would be a world where we TURN OFF the television when there's nothing on. The last show I watched (except news) was last November (yes--November of 2014) until "the muppets" came out. Despite my misgivings, based on the distasteful promo, I watched the premiere and found it to be every bit as puerile as it seems to be in the promos. It wasn't just childish--it was mean--down to the bone mean--and made me sad.

Let the smarmy and the cynical rule the world and the airwaves--my world has BOOKS.

I was being facetious, in that we live in a world which is ruled by really really bad reality television and that someone like Kim Kardashian could make, let alone knows what, the New York Times best seller list is. That basically, in order to get an audience and make money to the point that we'll get a second season, TV has to change and thus audience taste change.

I'm never happy about updated or remade stuff that is perfectly fine as an original, but the Muppet Show and the movies - as much as I love everything about them - are dated. If you want to blame anyone for this incessant insistence on remaking everything, blame parents for not showing their child the original it's based on, rather it be the book or the movie, and for just letting bad TV and movies be there babysitter.

With that said, I'm liking the show - is it the Muppet Show? No, but I didn't go into this show thinking it was going to be what was good about the Muppet Show (but hope to everything's that's holy that it won't be Muppets Tonight). I still think they're trying to find their footing - it's only been 3 episodes - but it's getting better for sure (and the next episode looks hilarious! Even if it's horrible, Swedish Chef rapping is the best idea ever).

I think people forget that some shows took a bit to find their voice before they got really good - Seinfeld, Cheers, 30 Rock, The Simpsons, Family Guy, and even the Muppet Show - but these shows also went on to get a large following and stayed on - or in the case of Family Guy, was brought back twice because of fan support - so don't count the show out yet, even if they're trying to be hip and with it with the young crowd; it's the parents who are mostly - hopefully - be the ones who will carry this, especially if they're fans.

And that's what will carry the show - us, the fans. Right now, we're kind split, but again it's only be 3 episodes. If it goes well, we can look back at the first season and say they really got their sea legs late in season 2 and it keeps getting better this season in season 6 or something.

 

[WebMistressGina]

As for the portrayal of the main characters the distinction between snarky and mean is a thin one. I'm not talking about cruel that's a big leap. But I still find Kermit in the wheelhouse of his previous self. Miss Piggy for me is a more problematic character. She is a character of wild extremes and it is through these extremes we can then settle on the nice middle ground. She can be selfish (she left Kermit on their date in The Muppet Movie). She can be insecure (She paid off the audience in the Dom DeLuise episode). I don't think either of these are necessarily bad traits. When push comes to shove I bet Piggy would pick Kermit and being a big star in a small pond (no pun intended) over being a major Hollywood star. However, she wants both and therefore needs to sometimes sacrifice one for the other. I think writing for Miss Piggy is one of the toughest assignments in the world. She has two very strong objectives and sometimes they mesh and sometimes they conflict. Jerry Juhl knew that exact spot where they meet. In my mind it's almost unfair to ask other writers to duplicate.

That is the one downside I have with the show now, is that it seems they're going out of their way to make Piggy even more selfish, petty, insecure, etc. That's who she is, BUT - as I think I posted earlier, somewhere - it does take something pretty big to get her to show her heart of gold, especially with the others.

A great example is the look on her face when Kermit breaks up with her. Her hate of Elizabeth Banks isn't because of Elizabeth Banks, but the fact that they were standing outside of her poster when they broke up.

Even in the Muppet Show, it took something big (like the rats using Beauregard) before we got to see that, "hey. she's not a complete psychopath. She's just a jerk with the heart of Gold"

Fozzie losing his mental compass. I am not exactly sure what you mean - is it his taking the candy dish? I think Fozzie is insecure enough to want to have a piece of physical evidence to show Gonzo, Rizzo et al. that he was at Jay Leno's. Later he realizes what he did was wrong and planned to return it. I was not happy with the repeat with him taking the rooster figure. So a better resolution there was needed.

Fozzie stealing a candy dish wasn't that big of a deal to me; it was the way Jay Leno flipped his **** over it, especially when he stole it first. Fozzie would totally take something to 1. show he was at Jay Leno's house and 2. show that he was at Jay Leno's house. He got a ribbing from Gonzo for it, so of course he'd take it and be like "How ya like me now!?"

But he did feel bad about it, especially when everyone alluded that it was in fact stealing and he was taking it back (until he broke it).

Like I said, it's only been three episodes. Netflix recently put out a report on when people start getting into a show and very few of them had the pilot listed; I think only two had the second episode as hooking people, but others (like OUAT), it took 6 episodes before people really got into the show.

I'll totally agree that for the moment, it's still a little off balance in that while the A plot is normally great, not enough time is given to the B/C plots, especially in some cases where these would be really good, if they didn't have to share with two other plots. My roommate mentioned that Seinfeld was a master at this, having several plots that ended up coming together at the end.

Modern Family I think is the best current example, which borrows from the above in that usually the three family plots come together at some point in the episode. I'd kinda like to see that, which I think would help out some; of course TMS did this as well and I think it worked when the plots converged on each other, even if the main plot was better than the subplot.