The Muppets Episode 2 - Hostile Makeover

[Ladywarrior]

Like would Jim have approved of this image?

To me it's kind of awkward. Don't get me wrong, it's better than the Zoot "joke", but it's just weird. I have no problem with the Muppets dabbling in adult humor, but at least let it be tasteful and genuine. Jim would've done it right; he knew quality.

O.O WHAT?!

 

[D'Snowth]

And the second episode being reminiscent of The Simpsons to me now makes sense since there are writers from that show involved. They basically turned Gonzo into Homer Simpson. He's been funny so far, but he doesn't seem like the Gonzo I know.

That's what I said earlier: when you bring in outside writers from other shows to try to make a new show, they're going to rely on the formulas they're familiar with from the shows they worked on: VMX had Simpsons-esque humor because they broguth in Simpsons writers; this show feels like THE OFFICE and MODERN FAMILY because they broguth in writers from those shows. It's like we can't rely on actual Muppet writers anymore, because somehow the Muppets have to confrom to the devices and tropes of today's mainstream entertainment if they want to fit in with pop culture. That's why the Muppets were always so unique: Jim found these people who understood his creative vision, and were able to help turn his dreams into realities; after his death, many of these people were still around, and continued to keep the Muppets alive in a spirit that was respectful to both Jim's visions and dreams, and the characters themselves. That's not what's happening anymore, and it's a shame. The Muppets (and really, anything Jim worked on) always kind of followed the beat of their own drum, and that helped set them apart from everything else around them . . . now, if they're not like everything else around them, that somehow will doomed them to obscurity, never to be heard from again. It's a sad sign of the times.

The issue I had with the Zoot joke is it seemed like something you'd see from Beavis and Butthead. It's cheap sophmoric humor. It's not smart comedy.

Exactly, that's what I said too. The Muppets always had levels of adult humor, but it was handled in a mature and sophisticated manner - this is just lowbrow humor going for quick, cheap laughs. I had issues with a recent episode of the new ALVINNN!!! AND THE CHIPMUNKS series on Nickelodeon, because even though tehy're back in the hands of their original creators sincet hose poor CGI/live action movies from 20th Century Fox, hey resorted to fartand buger-eating humor in said episode, and that's beneath them too.

 

[Blue Frackle]

What is VMX?

 

[D'Snowth]

IT'S A VERY MERRY MUPPET CHRISTMAS MOVIE.

Don't sweat it, initials used to throw me off around here too; I think people decided to go with 'VMX" because it required less typing than IAVMMCM.

 

[dwayne1115]

I will agree bringing in random writers from other shows is not what the Muppets need. They have a lot of great writers and not uesing them is sad.

 

[Duke Remington]

I will agree bringing in random writers from other shows is not what the Muppets need. They have a lot of great writers and not uesing them is sad.

But it has been beneficial to the new series and also to the two recent theatrical films, however.

 

[dwayne1115]

But it has been beneficial to the new series and also to the two recent theatrical films, however.

To an extend yes, but the Muppets where at there best when they had a head writer by the name of Jerry Juil. He understood the characters and the witty comedy that worked well. It has been said that Jim Lewis understood and wrote a lot like Jerry,and because of that and other reasons I would love to see him as a writer on this show.

 

[Ladywarrior]

now let me make this clean I am not against adult humor if it's done right. I like it subtle and not sophmoric. I very much enjoyed the Muppet show episode with Raquel Welch. It made me laugh real hard even though it was a pretty risque episode.
I am just not a fan of some of the humor in the new show. I am not saying I don't enjoy a lot of the show. I do enjoy it. The subplot with bobo was hilarious and kermit's antics in the episode also entertained me greatly it's just CERTAIN jokes feel like flanderization.

 

[jobi71]

To an extend yes, but the Muppets where at there best when they had a head writer by the name of Jerry Juil. He understood the characters and the witty comedy that worked well. It has been said that Jim Lewis understood and wrote a lot like Jerry,and because of that and other reasons I would love to see him as a writer on this show.

Looking at the production credits for The Muppets there are five people credited as executive producers (For shows filmed in L.A. all staff writers receive some sort of producer credit. Whether they wrote the actual script of that episode or not). Bill Prady and Bob Kushell who are the show runners - the head writers and coordinators of all the freelance and group writing. Randall Einhorn who is the director, so he may not have any writing duties, but perhaps in the filming of a scene he has to alter or add a line - well there's his credit. Bill Barretta whom we all know. I would guess he's the advisor/writer to try and keep the characters in character. Debbie McClellan of The Muppets Studio probably in a role similar to Bill. Three are listed as co-executive producers - Dave Caplan, Nell Scovell and Greg Mettler. I am guessing these guys and gal are the writing staff. And of course not all of these people may be involved in the writing of any particular episode as that would surely be a situation of one or two too many cooks. The Muppet Show - classic? (it's going to be hard to distinguish productions as half of them seem to have the same names) Had three writers who were with them all five seasons: Jerry Juhl, Jim and Frank. Jack Burns and Mark London were also there season one only. Joseph A. Bailey season 2 only. Dave Odell and Chris Langham seasons 3-5. And certain season 4 episodes had Don Hinkley and Jim Thurman. So at times there were conceivably 7 people contributing to a script and with this new show it seems there could be 8. So we will see if this new groups gels the way they did in the 70's. Because for me I don't think it matters how many writers there are but as long as they work well together and serve the characters and the story. Oh and networks often demand 1 freelance writer if it's a thirteen order run and 2 if it becomes the full 22. So there may be some other names floating around as writers.

 

[Drtooth]

Like would Jim have approved of this image?

Ugh. You know, I was going to bring that up. I disagree. That's worse. MUCH worse than the Zoot thing. The Zoot thing has the angle of "there's one in ever office" and, remember, in context the joke was that the rest of the cast was reviled with what he did. That poster is just "Hey 20 year old college kids. Private parts joke!" And that was something Henson did. Yep. Back when Henson was still in control.

And let's not forget Pepe's mispronunciation of "Miss Congenitalia."

I swear. I'd love for someone to dig up the Fox pitch script. It was far more immature and Family Guy-esque than this show could ever be accused of being. And dated as freaking heck. Much more so than VMX. it had a couple nuggets of goodness in there, but they were few and far between.

If anyone's picking apart the Zoot birthday card joke, I highly suggest looking up "New Zoo Revue Bloopers." (unless you're very very prudish... it's...kinda bad) That's a real life example of doing something extremely dirty to get a laugh out of the staff behind the scenes. It was a wrap party, and the staff was very depressed the show ended, and by gum, they did something so over the top filthy to keep that staff smiling it was actually the most heartwarming sex joke I've ever seen. Remember, people who work on the staff of a show tend to do these sort of things because putting together a show is so stressful, you'd lose your mind otherwise. I doubt this joke came that far out of left field. Seems like something one of the writing staff experienced.

Now, at the risk of doing a *** for tat thing, to me the nadir of terrible Muppet jokes done in poor taste, we have this "classic" from the original show.

Offensive, unfunny, and even if there was a clever bit in there, it was ruined by lazy, unfunny, 1940's cartoon style racism. And they couldn't even get the *&^% stereotype right. The "Japanese" caricatures are wearing stereotypical Chinese peasant clothing! Bad enough they all speak like Scooby-Doo. I do like the Mutations dressed as Samurai though. If they did more of that and less "Da Ramry berong roo rah rand," they would have had something. It's not even funny in the South Park "City Wok" kinda way. That was at least kinda clever. It's an embarrassing skit that's a disappointingly out of character moment for the entire staff. And don't give me no "Waaaah PC police" stuff either. People who complain about things being PC are the most easily offended people out there.

And yes. You do indeed have a right to disagree, sure, but we also have the right to disagree with your disagreement.