New Muppet Pilot in Development by Randall Einhorn (The Office, Modern Family) for ABC

[Drtooth]

How about this. Both are freaking toxic. Why is there no middle ground to "everything they make is horrible now" and "we should automatically love everything?"

How dare they have realistic opinions of things and not hold every Muppet production to no high standard because "It's the Muppets and I love them!"?

And I agree, or would, but this seems to be the very same "I automatically hate anything new" that's the exact opposite of "we need to love everything they do automatically." Everything needs to be an extreme one way or another. No cautious optimism. It's automatically either the greatest thing ever or the worst. And it's always all Disney's fault when, let's face it, the same problems came up before. Which is my problem. We shouldn't automatically praise the heck out of something nor should we dismiss it. If it's good, that's good. If it sucks, they move on to something else.

That's an unfortunate place where the fanbase is headed. The same crappy dysfunctionality where there's only absolute great or absolute awful and it's somehow a crime to enjoy things on different levels or at least declare things noble failures.

 

[Duke Remington]

There's nothing wrong with Fozzie having a girlfriend and doing other such new things with established characters--it's called "character development". And they're not changing the characters either--again, it's all merely character development and just merely adding new layers to them and trying something new and fresh.

Again, let's all give the new show a chance and hope that it will be good, successful and give the Muppets a new weekly show that will actually get to enjoy a multi-season run this time (like TMS did) and not get cancelled after only a small handful of episodes (like JHH and MT).

And if the mindless bashing and hatred continues, some more impressionable people (especially non-fanatics who do not understand the Muppets like we do) could come on here, get influenced by what is said and not give the new series a chance, increasing its chances at failure and then we'll all be kicking ourselves in each other's rear ends out of depression over it if it fails--we'd be partially to blame for all that if it happened.

 

[JimAndFrank]

As for judging a project before we have even seen a tiny smidgen of it, I agree with @Duke Remington. Perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to do so.

We all go through the same process every time: a project is announced, we go nuts with excitement. But as new details are released, all of us suddenly start making predictions then jump to conclusions based on those rather them waiting to see the final product! As much as I love this fandom, I think we have times where patience is something we forget to practice!

Stop turning against each other because your predictions are different to someone else's. And don't forget that your predictions are just that- predictions. Keep your final judgements for the period after we've seen the pilot...that's if we even get to see it!

 

[Drtooth]

We all go through the same process every time: a project is announced, we go nuts with excitement. But as new details are released, all of us suddenly start making predictions then jump to conclusions based on those rather them waiting to see the final product! As much as I love this fandom, I think we have times where patience is something we forget to practice!

Stop turning against each other because your predictions are different to someone else's. And don't forget that your predictions are just that- predictions. Keep your final judgements for the period after we've seen the pilot...that's if we even get to see it!

Exactly what I'm saying. You forgot to count those who make a cautious decision to outright automatically hate it because Jim didn't do it himself. Cautious Optimism. Sure, negativity seems all too cool for school while absolute optimism looks like idealistic foolishness. They're both an absolute and an overreaction. So far out of the details, personally I don't see any red flags about this being horrible outright. Just some things I like and some things I'm holding judgement on. It's not like it could go either way of bad or good yet, seems like anything can be the result. Again, cautious optimism. I'm very excited to hear news that they're going for something besides a movie or special rushed out carelessly (we all know which one that was), yet have realistic expectations of it. I'm not looking for something as good as the John Cleese episode of TMS. I'm looking to be entertained by a longtime favorite.

 

[jvcarroll]

In that regard, I really need to vent regarding these idiotic comments posted on the ToughPigs Facebook page by some uneducated jerk named Katie Gendill:



Then again, what do you expect from some of the people associated with ToughPigs? All-too-frequent mean-spiritedness is what you get!

The people over at Tough Pigs are friendly and this one woman certainly doesn't speak for most of the forum.

That said, there will always be people who want their memories hermetically sealed so that no one can touch them. I think Disney's done a much better job with the characters than the Henson Company and EMTV did the several years prior to the Disney sale and they've retained a lot of the original people. As for the original people and the tone of the Muppets, that changed once Jerry Juhl passed. People don't give enough credit to the writers and, even with some good attempts, no one has quite been able to fill his shoes. The fact that this woman believes she could "easily be a puppeteer" for the Muppets and then reduces Kermit's performance to a voice demonstrates her inexperience with the process. Ultimately that is how the public perceives the situation and the Muppets must always strive to transcend such arbitrary expectations. I think they do that. Some of the characters were passed around in the early years of the Muppet Show and it didn't really matter much as long as the sketches were funny. And that's the point. The Muppets have never been about being precious or some nostalgic keepsake memory. That may be some perception fans have after years of investing in these characters, but the Muppets are first and foremost about being funny. They'll be fine if they bring their brand of humor back to television. Case closed.

 

[JimAndFrank]

Exactly what I'm saying. You forgot to count those who make a cautious decision to outright automatically hate it because Jim didn't do it himself. Cautious Optimism. Sure, negativity seems all too cool for school while absolute optimism looks like idealistic foolishness. They're both an absolute and an overreaction. So far out of the details, personally I don't see any red flags about this being horrible outright. Just some things I like and some things I'm holding judgement on. It's not like it could go either way of bad or good yet, seems like anything can be the result. Again, cautious optimism. I'm very excited to hear news that they're going for something besides a movie or special rushed out carelessly (we all know which one that was), yet have realistic expectations of it. I'm not looking for something as good as the John Cleese episode of TMS. I'm looking to be entertained by a longtime favorite.

Cautious Optimism: the phrase of the day (and the thread)

 

[scooterfan360]

@conor blake and @scooterfan360, if you insist on having an argument between yourselves, please do so in private messaging. Your fight does not need to be here, nor do the rest of us want to put up with it.

Now as for judging a project before we have even seen a tiny smidgen of it, I agree with @Duke Remington. Perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to do so.

We all go through the same process every time: a project is announced, we go nuts with excitement. But as new details are released, all of us suddenly start making predictions then jump to conclusions based on those rather them waiting to see the final product! As much as I love this fandom, I think we have times where patience is something we forget to practice!

Stop turning against each other because your predictions are different to someone else's. And don't forget that your predictions are just that- predictions. Keep your final judgements for the period after we've seen the pilot...that's if we even get to see it!

i'm not turning anyone against each other here i'm just saying that the formula for the pilot might not work, may i remind you that abc is one of the networks who didn't want the Muppets back in the 70's and Muppet's tonight didin't last long. and i believe that if it airs that there will be backlash from some of the viewers . i do want the Muppets to comeback to tv, but not like this.

 

[Drtooth]

That said, there will always be people who want their memories hermetically sealed so that no one can touch them. I think Disney's done a much better job with the characters than the Henson Company and EMTV did the several years prior to the Disney sale and they've retained a lot of the original people. As for the original people and the tone of the Muppets, that changed once Jerry Juhl passed. People don't give enough credit to the writers and, even with some good attempts, no one has quite been able to fill his shoes. The fact that this woman believes she could "easily be a puppeteer" for the Muppets and then reduces Kermit's performance to a voice demonstrates her inexperience with the process.

Indeed. Personally, I glazed over half the comment when I heard the obligatory "Everything the Muppets did under Disney was awful, but MCC was the greatest thing ever" comment detractors make (MCC was a beautiful film and all, but it's the least Muppety thing ever from the Muppets). I don't think it's just the Muppets. It feels that everyone from every fandom (especially the casuals) have some sort of intangible ownership of franchises because "nostalgia." It's nothing short of an obnoxious Kobyashi Maru. And here it is again. We can't have new characters, but we can't have old characters doing new things, why aren't the old characters relevant anymore? Like I love Bugs Bunny, but I hate any new cartoons with him in it, I also hate Regular Show for Not being Bugs Bunny, why can't we have him back anymore, just not doing new things? If there's one thing that I'm getting sick of it's fans that whine about how a show was cancelled before it's time, only to turn around and whine that it's not what they wanted. At least this woman had the common sense to say "I'm done." Only thing I can say in her defense.

If you don't like how a series/franchise is doing, you have every right to walk out, but you also lose the right to complain if said franchise/series loses relevance and falls into obscurity.

I'd also like to add that Jerry Juhl's influence on the Muppets disappeared long before he passed. A certain overly fussed about movie was part of the reason he stopped doing projects. Certainly, Jerry made MCC and MTI better than they could have been (MTI especially). But if there's anything lacking to the Muppets, it's something that's been long gone since the late 90's. I find it absolutely cheap to passive aggressively turn things at Disney. I remember the complaints back in 2003 about how JHC wasn't the same JHC anymore without Jim and how their projects were all wonky and things were greatly missing. I think that's the one thing that most fans fail to appreciate. Disney, if anything, had a stronger sense of leadership than JHC (though not all right away), and after some struggles they brought the franchise back. Not to mention the fact JHC sold the Muppets to Disney, it wasn't a hostile corporate takeover. In fact, does anyone remember the long list of buyers EMTV had lined up before they sold JHC back to the Hensons? Saban? Classic Media... oh that's a treat. Classic Media bought distressed properties when they were dirt cheap, and became a distressed property and bought by Dreamworks, which is slowly becoming a distressed property. Yeah. Wouldn't it have been fun to see the Muppets in their hands. Would've got a lot of merchandise, though.

 

[dwayne1115]

Indeed. Personally, I glazed over half the comment when I heard the obligatory "Everything the Muppets did under Disney was awful, but MCC was the greatest thing ever" comment detractors make (MCC was a beautiful film and all, but it's the least Muppety thing ever from the Muppets). I don't think it's just the Muppets. It feels that everyone from every fandom (especially the casuals) have some sort of intangible ownership of franchises because "nostalgia." It's nothing short of an obnoxious Kobyashi Maru. And here it is again. We can't have new characters, but we can't have old characters doing new things, why aren't the old characters relevant anymore? Like I love Bugs Bunny, but I hate any new cartoons with him in it, I also hate Regular Show for Not being Bugs Bunny, why can't we have him back anymore, just not doing new things? If there's one thing that I'm getting sick of it's fans that whine about how a show was cancelled before it's time, only to turn around and whine that it's not what they wanted. At least this woman had the common sense to say "I'm done." Only thing I can say in her defense.

If you don't like how a series/franchise is doing, you have every right to walk out, but you also lose the right to complain if said franchise/series loses relevance and falls into obscurity.

I'd also like to add that Jerry Juhl's influence on the Muppets disappeared long before he passed. A certain overly fussed about movie was part of the reason he stopped doing projects. Certainly, Jerry made MCC and MTI better than they could have been (MTI especially). But if there's anything lacking to the Muppets, it's something that's been long gone since the late 90's. I find it absolutely cheap to passive aggressively turn things at Disney. I remember the complaints back in 2003 about how JHC wasn't the same JHC anymore without Jim and how their projects were all wonky and things were greatly missing. I think that's the one thing that most fans fail to appreciate. Disney, if anything, had a stronger sense of leadership than JHC (though not all right away), and after some struggles they brought the franchise back. Not to mention the fact JHC sold the Muppets to Disney, it wasn't a hostile corporate takeover. In fact, does anyone remember the long list of buyers EMTV had lined up before they sold JHC back to the Hensons? Saban? Classic Media... oh that's a treat. Classic Media bought distressed properties when they were dirt cheap, and became a distressed property and bought by Dreamworks, which is slowly becoming a distressed property. Yeah. Wouldn't it have been fun to see the Muppets in their hands. Would've got a lot of merchandise, though.

Well in the beginning of the era which is now known as Disney's Muppets I to was worried that the Muppets would be shelved, and not used hardly at all. Ten years latter I can say that somethings have not been perfect (TMS Seasons 4 & 5) but the Muppets are far from dead. I honestly think that Muppet Studios is trying everything they can to keep the magic that Jim created alive and at the same time fresh for a new and younger generation. If that is not a challenge then well I don't know what is.

 

[dwayne1115]

i'm not turning anyone against each other here i'm just saying that the formula for the pilot might not work, may i remind you that abc is one of the networks who didn't want the Muppets back in the 70's and Muppet's tonight didin't last long. and i believe that if it airs that there will be backlash from some of the viewers . i do want the Muppets to comeback to tv, but not like this.

Sorry for double posting but I wanted to say this as well.
@scooterfan360 We are all well aware of the history of ABC and the Muppets is far from a pleasant one. However I would like to think that both parties have learned from there mistakes, and that we will not have something like with what happened with Muppets Tonight. Search the forums and you will find a lot of talk about Muppets Tonight, and what people loved, and why we think it did not last very long. If you look at all that it may help you have a little more faith in this project.