New Muppet Pilot in Development by Randall Einhorn (The Office, Modern Family) for ABC

dwayne1115

dwayne1115

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Drtooth said:
I do agree with one point, though, and It's what I've been saying for years, so skip to the point, MWOZ sucked and that's what JHC would have continued with, it's not like any other entertainment company is well run enough to do anything decent with the characters as they can't even handle their own (look at the crap that went down with Spider-Man at Sony), JHC can't get a project off the ground that isn't a CGI kid's show to save their lives, and at best we'd have a Muppet movie that's been in development purgatory for 10+ years. But above all, you can't go home again.

There are3 kinds of fans, I feel. The kind that know that nothing's going to be the same or "as good" or whatever again yet accept that and hope for the best tempered with a little concern and those who know things aren't going to be good ever again and just leave the franchise. Then there's the third kind that want things back on their terms, and when they don't get that, they whine their butts off and then whine their butts off even harder when the franchise disappears completely. I'll agree at least that woman wasn't one of them, and I at least respect the whole "done with the franchise" bit. Good. Move on.

But the number one thing that bugs me is this whole "The Muppets where an organic thing when they were owned by a family and now that a corporation owns them, they're slowly dying." If I'm to be lectured about how "terrible" new Muppet projects are, I'd rather listen to someone who says "the last great thing they were in was JHH" than "why don't we have the same quality we had with KSY, the Jessica Simpson and the other guy talk show, and those appearances where Kermit and Piggy chased each other like bad caricatures of themselves?" A lot of what made the Muppets good left with Jim. There's nothing wrong to say about that, as it happens with every entertainment legacy when someone dies. Heck. Star Wars. Even when the franchise's originator is still there. You can't go home again, but that doesn't mean no one ignore the neighborhood, maybe try the new restaurant that looks good where that place you kept getting food poisoning but kept going to used to be.

And the Looney Tunes analogy again... just because we aren't seeing another What's Opera Doc or Duck Amok doesn't mean you can't appreciate something as bad as Loonatics ever again being made. The characters can continue, you can ignore them if you don't like the direction, but you can't whine about not having a commercially available replacement for the VHS your machine just chewed up.
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When it come to your point about there being three kind of fans. I find myself almost having to defend my fandom, and my loyalty to the Muppets. Sure Oz was not the greatest, but it still had one or two gold nuggets in there that made it watchable.
I support the Muppets in there new projects. Because I know that a lot of the people that still work with the Muppets want to put out the best product they possibly can. For that reason alone I say keep working, and keep trying.
 
dwayne1115

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LaRanaRene said:
Donald Glover. Less of Kermit trying to keep everyone in control, more of him interacting with different characters, such as Fozzie, Pepe, or Gonzo.
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I to would love to see Kermit talk solo with more of the Muppets. In the last two movies it seems he only talked to Fozzie, Piggy Gonzo, and Walter. It would be great if he would talk and interact more with Rowlf and Dr.Teeth since Bill is now doing them.
 
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dwayne1115 said:
So........What kind of guest stars would anyone like to see?
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Everyone from the cast of Bob's Burgers. Well, as themselves obviously. We've seen Kristen in TM, but I wanna see them do improv with Jon Benjamin.

I'd also love to see Billy Crystal again at some point. Maybe Ty Burrel coming back? He was wonderful with Sam in MMW. There's too many for me to list, actually.

dwayne1115 said:
When it come to your point about there being three kind of fans. I find myself almost having to defend my fandom, and my loyalty to the Muppets. Sure Oz was not the greatest, but it still had one or two gold nuggets in there that made it watchable.
I support the Muppets in there new projects. Because I know that a lot of the people that still work with the Muppets want to put out the best product they possibly can. For that reason alone I say keep working, and keep trying.
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That's my middle ground. Not every new project's going to be great, but that doesn't mean every new one's going to be bad. JHC and Disney have been fine tuning the heck out of the franchise when they had their turns. It's hard to come up with something that's not too the same that it's a retread and too different than it can be anything else. It's a fine line walk. I'm supportive yet have a healthy does of concern (I'd say skepticism or cynicism is too strong a word). But when it comes to legacy franchises, I've seen far worse out of other characters. Loonatics, sure, but also Underdog the live action turdfest and the awful George of the Jungle reboot. Even MOz wasn't half as bad as some of the crap I've seen. Not every franchise continuation can be "Might Mouse: The New Adventures." I love Mighty Mouse's classic cartoons and all (except the silent ones where he basically does Tom and Jerry schtick), but there's just something about that version of the character I prefer to all others.
 
dwayne1115

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Drtooth said:
Everyone from the cast of Bob's Burgers. Well, as themselves obviously. We've seen Kristen in TM, but I wanna see them do improv with Jon Benjamin.

I'd also love to see Billy Crystal again at some point. Maybe Ty Burrel coming back? He was wonderful with Sam in MMW. There's too many for me to list, actually.



That's my middle ground. Not every new project's going to be great, but that doesn't mean every new one's going to be bad. JHC and Disney have been fine tuning the heck out of the franchise when they had their turns. It's hard to come up with something that's not too the same that it's a retread and too different than it can be anything else. It's a fine line walk. I'm supportive yet have a healthy does of concern (I'd say skepticism or cynicism is too strong a word). But when it comes to legacy franchises, I've seen far worse out of other characters. Loonatics, sure, but also Underdog the live action turdfest and the awful George of the Jungle reboot. Even MOz wasn't half as bad as some of the crap I've seen. Not every franchise continuation can be "Might Mouse: The New Adventures." I love Mighty Mouse's classic cartoons and all (except the silent ones where he basically does Tom and Jerry schtick), but there's just something about that version of the character I prefer to all others.
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This is kind of off topic, but for the record I do not put all the blame on JHC for Oz or for MFS. I feel like both should have been at the very least delayed until all the behind the scenes drama could have been handled correctly. That is one reason why I have a lot of faith in this pilot. Because Disney owns the Muppets, and they finally seem to have a game plan as to how to use them.
 
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dwayne1115 said:
This is kind of off topic, but for the record I do not put all the blame on JHC for Oz or for MFS. I feel like both should have been at the very least delayed until all the behind the scenes drama could have been handled correctly. That is one reason why I have a lot of faith in this pilot. Because Disney owns the Muppets, and they finally seem to have a game plan as to how to use them.
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Sony and JHC have hands in why MFS was off. There's probably a reason why Brian Henson couldn't direct MFS, and I think I know what it could be, but I'd have to run through all of TV Tropes for the specific example of it happening with a specific movie that had problems with the direction. Something about not firing a director and then firing the second to bring the first director back... Suffice to say, if Brian just helmmed the whole thing, it would have worked better, but I suspect something prevented him from being the replacement for the first guy they had. But yeah, there was some complete ennui with Sony and JHC and a noob director that didn't "get" the Muppets. Looking at the other things he directed, it's no wonder why the movie came out the way it did.

While I don't want to go onto another MWO bashfest, you can tell JHC was trying to go for an edgy demographic in the 00's (with the exception of KSY, which is an involved story about a failed preschool series). And while it worked for VMX (it just doesn't hold up much), the Fox pilot and that other movie were downright painful, boarderline Seltzer and Freiberg levels of pop culture in your faceness to VMX's Scary Movie-ness. Doesn't hurt that kind of humor wasn't dead yet when VMX came out. Disaster Movie didn't come out until later. I'm glad Disney didn't try that sort of humor, at least to a painful extent.

But my issue is with what Henson's been up to lately. I applaud the success they had with Puppet Up and their CGI shows, but they haven't really gotten anything together since. Except that Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad kid's book adaption, but they were attached as producers since Fox threatened to make it. It boils down to them needing a business partner, but not finding a worthy one. A certain company just wanted bad Shrek knockoffs (I don't care what anyone says about any post-Henson Muppet projects, that was selling out), another just wanted to release a back catalog on DVD, and no one else wants in. Disney at least had the resources to get 2 movies out on their own without having to woo several companies to be co-producers and distributors. Think about it. That's at least 2 or 3 other studios that want to force their vision on something.
 
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