Is there a reason why Disney dislikes releasing Muppet DVD's?

[D'Snowth]

Look like I said, it's been 5 years, this year marks the Muppets 60th anniversary, it's a very safe bet we're going to be getting Season 4. You think all this time, Disney is going to miss this chance?

That's what everybody was saying in 2011 when THE MUPPETS (2011) came out... then again last year when MMW came out.

 

[Nailwraps]

Third time's the charm.

 

[WalterLinz]

Third time's the charm.

Lol I dunnooo...

 

[beaker]

It's simple my friend, after the 10+ years that Disney has owned the Muppets, they still do not know what they are going to do with them. When Disney bought Marvel and Star Wars there fan base was more secure, and sadly a lot larger then the Muppet fan base. I think it was you or someone else who had started another thread about how the Muppet fandom was kind of like an underground fandom. The fandom is still kind of weak even though there are three major websites, this one Tough Pigs and the Mindset.

I think Disney needs some kind of proof that the Muppets can still make them money. MMW did not do that great at the box office, and I think that has caused doubt that the Muppets can make as much money as Marvel and Star Wars.

Also if you look at how happy Disney is to include Marvel and Star Wars in anything new they are doing. Where as the Muppets are being treated like Disney's red headed step child that no one wants to play with.

2011 Muppets movie was an anomaly, as I just get the feeling the public by and large, cept for some older college geeks, are not big into the Muppets. In 2003 I quipped how Brian Henson's Farscape at the time had a much larger fanbase than the Muppets. I still maintain actual Muppet fans are rather underground. Contrast this with how virtually every household in America has Disneyana merchandise.

It makes me sad. I envisioned a day when the Muppets were back on tv, popularity, merchandise, etc...and despite two movies and a lot of marketing muscle...it feels worse than the EM.TV owned era. Much worse. Things don't feel like they are on the right track

Can anyone speculate as to why the Muppets aren't very popular?

 

[beaker]

Do you realize Disney's not the only studio that does stuff like this?

It took six years to get Seasons Four and Five of Rocky and Bullwinkle after the first three seasons were released annually (of course, part of it had to do with Sony Wonder going under).

It's been been nearly a decade since MGM released Season Three of GREEN ACRES, and they still have three more seasons to go.

Warner is by far the worst... we were actually lucky they just released Season Two of COURAGE THE COWARDLY DOG to coincide with the new CGI short that just came out, otherwise, they haven't released any new titles under the CN Hall of Fame banner. Likewise, it's been seven years since they released the first two seasons of ED, EDD N EDDY, and that was one of their biggest hits... they never even released BIG PICTURE SHOW on DVD!

Don't forget there was a five year gap between Vol. 2 and 3 of SST Old School.

Rocky and Bulwinkle as well as Courage and other classic cartoons you've mentioned do not have the lineage, legacy or prolific nature of The Muppets and Jim Henson productions, not by a long mile. There could literally be a 24 hour jim henson/sesame/muppet channel and they'd never run out of things to show...yet, we have gotten hardly any dvd releases in the last 5 years.

 

[beaker]

Except, in terms of DVD release, they hate those guys as well. Sure, they released the full 90's Fantastic Four series, 90's X-men in odd 2 disk volumes, and the Avengers cartoon before the current one in single disk volumes... but where's Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends (though it is on Netflix), 80's Incredible Hulk, 90's Incredible Hulk, and the original 60's Spider-Man cartoon (though, who'd want that one). Sure, there's a lot of Marvel stuff Disney can't get the rights to, like the HB produced FF series and some of the Sony made Spider-Man cartoons (but Sony still can release those, so...). But there's indeed a lot of stuff they haven't released on DVD yet. Heck, even their current Marvel cartoons only got crappy single disk releases.

And who wants to bet Disney isn't going to even touch Droids and Ewoks? I don't think we'll see Rebels in the same season sets Clone Wars was either.

Bottom line. Disney hates releasing season sets of anything. Even cash cow Toy Story didn't see a Buzz Lightyear of Star Command release, Winnie the Pooh's new Adventures cartoons saw sporadic 3 episodes on a 15 dollar DVD, and that's the one thing you'd think they would have released by now. Why do you think all the Disney Afternoon DVD's stopped half way, and The Tick had 2 incomplete seasons culled from Comedy Central reruns (read edited)? Even their own crappy 00's era sitcoms had to be rereleased by Lionsgate (as if anyone wanted them).

So it's not a Muppet specific problem. heck, the Muppet ones they did release had a tone of more care than any of the DA cartoons I mentioned. They couldn't get Jim Cummings to sit down for a few minutes to interview him?

Lionsgate is the BEST thing to happen to the Muppets/Jim Henson DVD releases, like ever.

 

[beaker]

For the record I am not a Disney hater. Used to be during the original Muppet Disney buy era, but I like most of you am wildly excited about Marvel, Star Wars and original CG fair like Wreck it Ralph and Big Hero 6.

I'm just concerned as a Muppet fan of nearly four decades what the legacy or gameplan will be. I can't explain why MMW bombed, given I loved it a thousand times more than the 2011 movie. But it just feels like when it comes to dvds, Disney just seems content on re-releasing the old movies(and not the ones Columbia owns, haha) forever

 

[jvcarroll]

2011 Muppets movie was an anomaly, as I just get the feeling the public by and large, cept for some older college geeks, are not big into the Muppets. In 2003 I quipped how Brian Henson's Farscape at the time had a much larger fanbase than the Muppets. I still maintain actual Muppet fans are rather underground. Contrast this with how virtually every household in America has Disneyana merchandise.

It makes me sad. I envisioned a day when the Muppets were back on tv, popularity, merchandise, etc...and despite two movies and a lot of marketing muscle...it feels worse than the EM.TV owned era. Much worse. Things don't feel like they are on the right track

Can anyone speculate as to why the Muppets aren't very popular?

I have to object entirely to the thought that the Muppets are underground. They are certainly not a first tier property as they were in the early 80's, but they are not some completely niche property either. Not in the least!

Physical products are a hard sell for any property. How many affordable Mickey Mouse figures do you see in local shops? How many Mickey Mouse binders and notebooks do you see at Walgreens? There's basically a trickle of Mickey greeting cards and maybe some wrapping paper for this singular icon of the Walt Disney Company. Fans can't expect for Disney to treat the Muppets any better than the Mouse - or even half as good right now. But that's not because they're "underground" or niche. They just aren't quite popular enough.

And that's the rub. If they were underground, Disney would give up and just exploit them for niche venues like Hot Topic, but they don't. Most people I've met still voice their affection toward the Muppets. In fact, except for some of the cynical millennials, everyone loves the Muppets! So are they underground? No. Are they particularly popular right now? No. The truth is that they're kind of middling in the public consciousness and as a fan I'm uncomfortable with that.

Many fans seem to have a black or white view of things - something is either a remarkable success or a complete flop. Most things live in that middle space. That's kind of where the Muppets are now. They're quite above ground. They're just not quite in the right place yet, but I have faith in them.

 

[Drtooth]

And that's the rub. If they were underground, Disney would give up and just exploit them for niche venues like Hot Topic, but they don't. Most people I've met still voice their affection toward the Muppets. In fact, except for some of the cynical millennials, everyone loves the Muppets! So are they underground? No. Are they particularly popular right now? No. The truth is that they're kind of middling in the public consciousness and as a fan I'm uncomfortable with that.

Many fans seem to have a black or white view of things - something is either a remarkable success or a complete flop. Most things live in that middle space. That's kind of where the Muppets are now. They're quite above ground. They're just not quite in the right place yet, but I have faith in them.

Which is pretty annoying. Mainstream love of Muppets boils down to. "Oh, I remember those guys!" and "Hey! They were in a Family Guy Cutscene! I wonder what happened to them." Yet not "Oh, they made another movie. Let's go see it and buy some merchandise." Instead we got 2011- "oh cool! They have a new movie! They made a comeback." 2014 was more like "you mean to tell me comeback means they're making more than one movie? *&^% That! We're totally sick of you already! Hollywood is out of ideas! Where's the imaginary indie film I wouldn't actually go see that didn't get made because this thing exists?" So apparently, movie goers love a comeback, just not when they actually stay back.

As for the DVD's, and this is the trillionth time I said this, if it's music rights, it's because some greedy old music owners who would rather make more money off of changing the lyrics of a song to sell laxitives against the original artist's wishes. If it's Disney wembling about with the release, it's their fault and their fault only. They had the chance to release S4 a half a decade ago, but kept putting it off for no good reason. Then they just didn't. I don't see who benefits from that at all.

 

[jvcarroll]

Which is pretty annoying. Mainstream love of Muppets boils down to. "Oh, I remember those guys!" and "Hey! They were in a Family Guy Cutscene! I wonder what happened to them." Yet not "Oh, they made another movie. Let's go see it and buy some merchandise." Instead we got 2011- "oh cool! They have a new movie! They made a comeback." 2014 was more like "you mean to tell me comeback means they're making more than one movie? *&^% That! We're totally sick of you already! Hollywood is out of ideas! Where's the imaginary indie film I wouldn't actually go see that didn't get made because this thing exists?" So apparently, movie goers love a comeback, just not when they actually stay back.

As for the DVD's, and this is the trillionth time I said this, if it's music rights, it's because some greedy old music owners who would rather make more money off of changing the lyrics of a song to sell laxitives against the original artist's wishes. If it's Disney wembling about with the release, it's their fault and their fault only. They had the chance to release S4 a half a decade ago, but kept putting it off for no good reason. Then they just didn't. I don't see who benefits from that at all.

A recent Google search led me to a blog article from last year that discussed last year's MMW attendance. So many of the posts cited the 2011 film being the "real" Muppets because they seemed more "sincere." That is just bonkers-insane to me. Those must be the most casual of Muppet fans. The Muppets aren't supposed to be cynical, but they're not overly syrupy or sincere either. They're basically slightly naive, fuzzy anarchists led by their own self-interests and the humor comes when their personalities are juxtaposed to the human world and/or one another. They're not really all about getting along and hugging. I swear if I saw the Swedish Chef hug one more chicken in Segel's film, I was gonna lose it! While I did like that picture, those were softer, gentler characters. They didn't really show their full-fledged Mupppetyness until they kidnapped Jack Black. They didn't do it out of malice. They just didn't understand why it was wrong. Again, naive self-interest. Ha! MMW has that in spades.

I still maintain the weak numbers reflected the anemic 2014 general box office. Sure, there were some smash hits scattered throughout, but there were more fizzles and disappointments. People didn't go because they didn't see the need to go. Kids and families already had the 2011 film on home video and teens had little reason to shell out another twelve bucks to go see a movie that would hit cable and Netflix soon enough. That was the mood of most movies last year. Let's be honest. Movies only hit theaters for about a month, then their shelved for another three before hitting the home entertainment marketplace. I know some reviewers cited a shift in tone (one I think was needed) but the truth is that the Muppets had no real reason to be back in theaters quite yet - and if they did, it should have been a year earlier and closer to the 2011 release date.

There's still much love for the classic Muppets. Sure, Beaker, Animal and the Swedish Chef get a lot of love from these novice fans, but it's not for the Family Guy versions of them. I don't think it's for the 2011 version of those characters either. It used to be rare for audiences to have to pay a premium to see these characters. They used to be piped-in via television or in basic cable reruns. Movies were a rare thing. With the absence of reruns on television and the web segments hidden away in the Drive On area of the Disney site (they might as well just be in the Disney vault itself) there's little traction. The ad campaign was great. Maybe some potential audience members filled up on that before the main course.