Back To Square One?(The Muppets' 60th Anniversary)

[MelissaY1]

I really think a muppet sitcom could thrive on network TV. All everyone ever says is that they need to bring back TMS. This is not just hardcore fans, this is everyone everywhere, they just want it. If it aired on Sundays at 8pm on ABC it would work really well, and could be really big. Though we would just have to wait and see if the ratings are good. Though, I think it could last, but one discouraging thing is the ratings flop that the LGMHS thing was.

Didn't they already try this though, with Muppets Tonight? I think they would be better off on a cable channel, perhaps back at Disney than broadcast TV.

 

[minor muppetz]

I wonder how difficult it would be to make a weekly half-hour Muppet show that does not involve putting on a show (at least not as the primary premise).

I once asked about this in the Ask Jim Lewis thread, and I can't remember what Jim Lewis said but he said that he didn't think it would be hard to do a Muppet show where they don't put on a show.

If they don't do a show, they could still have musical numbers. And some characters could still be in show business. The Electric Mayhem could still be a band, Fozzie could still be a comedian, but they'd also be shown working "day jobs" as well. Or maybe the Muppets could start a new kind of business, like opening a hotel or a mall (I know there's one fan here who suggested a Muppet Mall series once on the forum) or a restaurant. I wonder if it would be depressing to see a TV show in which the Muppets have all retired from show business and now work normal jobs. Would it be funny if the show was about the Muppets retiring from show biz but constantly break the forth wall reminding us that it's just a show and they tecnically are still in show business?

 

[dwayne1115]

I think one of the problems with Muppets Tonight was it was trying to be to much like the Muppet Show, but not quite hitting the mark. I think that for there TV show to be successful they need to step away from the Muppet Show and try something new and fresh.

 

[beaker]

According to part 3 of The Muppet Mindset's interview with Kirk Thatcher, Disney does plan to do a lot more Muppet stuff regardless of how Muppets Most Wanted did, but he's not allowed to reveal any of it until they're announced.

VERY good to hear. I didn't read part 3 left. To me Kirk Thatcher is at the heart of the Muppets so it's comforting to hear. Just feels like the Muppets and especially the fans have been abandoned...especially as Star Wars, Frozen, Pixar and Marvel mania will be the focus.

 

[beaker]

Hopes that includes the TMS a Season 4 and 5 DVDs, as well as more old school Muppet material (like the Tales From Muppetland specials, Muppets Tonight, etc.) finally making their way to DVD, more Muppet attractions and offerings coming to the Disney parks, etc.

Sadly, I doubt we will ever get any of those...but I'm hoping for more specials and hopefully new merchandise

Seriously, it feels like we haven't gotten any decent Muppet merch since Disney took over

 

[beaker]

I also assumed that he wasn't talking about new releases of old content (though that would be just as welcome).

It's said in part one that the interview happened a few months ago and just got posted a few weeks ago. I wonder if the upcoming Disney Junior interstitial series was announced at the time or not. But considering what he said in the interview I expect a bit more than just that (of course they could also cancel all those plans that we don't know about).

Considering how some were worried about the Muppets franchise due to how Muppets Most Wanted did at the box office, I wonder if we should think about Muppet presence when Muppets from Space came out and bombed, though that movie remains the lowest-grossing Muppet movie (can't remember off-hand how much higher Muppets Most Wanted ranks in non-inflated box office sales) and is not as well-received by fans as MMW. I know, this could be like comparing apples and oranges... Actually, I hate oranges, but don't hate MFS, so maybe we shouldn't be comparing apples (which would be Muppets Most Wanted) and oranges... How about Muppets from Space be pears or peaches? I like those but not as much as apples. So comparing MMW and MFS is like comparing apples and peaches.

After Muppets from Space flopped, there was still quite a bit of Muppet stuff out around that time. The fact that it was one of the Jim Henson Company's main franchises (as opposed to being one of many franchises owned by Disney) might have helped (but then again, at the time Bear in the Big Blue House and Farscape were really successful, and the company still owned the Sesame Street Muppets), and aside from video games and appearances I can't think of any Muppet content that came out between the release of MFS and EM.TV buying the company. Would it be wrong to think of it as a good thing that a company was willing to buy Henson during this time? So Columbia Pictures pretty much ended its 10-15-movie distribution deal for Henson (not just because of MFS, but all of the Jim Henson Pictures films that came out were box office flops). But even then, for the next few years it seems like new Muppet films (especially Muppet Haunted House) were being announced as being in development. And EM.TV had made plans to produce a new Muppet TV show, which may or may not be the same show that was being developed for Fox in 2002. And we got Muppetfest, Kermit's Swamp Years, and It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie shortly after. And luckily this was when the company was celebrating the 25th anniversary of The Muppet Show, so we got so much merchandise (including the Palisades figures).

Great overview. I remember being on the old Muppet Central forums when Muppets From Space came out, and I gotta say there was a LOT of huge enthusiasm. 1995-1999 was actually a pretty exciting time for the Muppets.

I miss when JHC owned Muppets, Sesame, Bear and Fraggles. Back when
we had all sorts of video games and Sony put out all of the dvds. Disney rarely releases Disney dvds. I actually sadly have to say, other than the two new movies, the Muppets were doing way better in 1999-2004 under Jim Henson Company. The 2002-2005 Muppet merchandise alone was insanely amazing and I doubt we will ever see even a third of that quality of merchandise.

I disagree, I think a lot of good content was made during that late JHC/EMTV era, that a lot of people forgot. But I totally agree with your point.

 

[Drtooth]

Yeah, but the thing was they weren't really getting a lot of projects in that time. There was VMX, a bunch of failed projects and crappy guest shots on crappy shows and then MWOO. We got so much merchandise that we actually had to be picky, and I think that had a LOT more to do with JHC having a bad time getting a project out. So it's like, would you rather merchandise or movies?

That's why we've seen so much oddly hard to collect outside of a comic book Fraggle stuff. There's no way there's ever going to be a movie or any reasonable semblance of a comeback. Heck, you can say that for any of JHC's franchises. Only the CGI kid's shows are successful... and even with Doozers, it's hard to gauge that one being on Hulu. And premium Hulu to boot. I don't think we'd see much more or better Muppet merchandise if Henson still owned them. Maybe a comic book or something. If Fraggle Rock is any indication of how Henson markets anything, we'd get a bunch of ugly high end t-shirts and statues and stuff like that. I'm disappointed there's nothing really special out there Muppets wise outside of some plush, figure sets, and the Funko Pop figures that sold out the second they hit shelves. Then again, would we really want to see Kermit the Frog Snackees?

When it comes to other Disney outlets, I don't see anything really special either outside of, strangely, the same exact things. I don't see an indie toy company making highly detailed Frozen collectible action figures out there. Only reason why Star Wars and Marvel have anything like that is that they consistently had that, and Hasbro still holds the licenses for both.

 

[Muppet Master]

I think one of the problems with Muppets Tonight was it was trying to be to much like the Muppet Show, but not quite hitting the mark. I think that for there TV show to be successful they need to step away from the Muppet Show and try something new and fresh.

Ya, MT was like the younger sibling of TMS who thought they had to be like TMS to be successful. Still though, MT had nothing going for it. Bad timeslot, unrecognizable characters which is the big one, because people saw little of Kermit and Miss Piggy, and they rest which is who they want to see, and it did not know what to be. It wanted to be TMS, but there were not that many songs or sketches, and they wanted to be like a sitcom, it was strange, but a great show. If they made a muppet show now, it would focus on Kermit, Miss Piggy, Fozzie Bear, Gonzo the Great, and the rest, and we would not have to wait years for a DVD release.

 

[Muppet Master]

I wonder how difficult it would be to make a weekly half-hour Muppet show that does not involve putting on a show (at least not as the primary premise).

I once asked about this in the Ask Jim Lewis thread, and I can't remember what Jim Lewis said but he said that he didn't think it would be hard to do a Muppet show where they don't put on a show.

If they don't do a show, they could still have musical numbers. And some characters could still be in show business. The Electric Mayhem could still be a band, Fozzie could still be a comedian, but they'd also be shown working "day jobs" as well. Or maybe the Muppets could start a new kind of business, like opening a hotel or a mall (I know there's one fan here who suggested a Muppet Mall series once on the forum) or a restaurant. I wonder if it would be depressing to see a TV show in which the Muppets have all retired from show business and now work normal jobs. Would it be funny if the show was about the Muppets retiring from show biz but constantly break the forth wall reminding us that it's just a show and they tecnically are still in show business?

It could be a sitcom, not the family type, but the Seinfeld, Friends, How I Met Your Mother type with four friends except not as adult, but still adult enough to be on primetime. It could have Kermit, Fozzie, Gonzo, and Miss Piggy as the main characters, and the other muppets as supporting characters that are all around. It could be about the muppets trying to get back into show business, but at the moment they have jobs. Fozzie is a stand up comedian, Kermit is a telemarketer, Miss Piggy sells perfumes, and Gonzo has no job. The other muppets could have subplots, and be at where the others work or anywhere, and would have their time in the spotlight now and then. I could see this work well, sadly I doubt it would be made.

 

[minor muppetz]

People tend to say that Muppets Tonight tried too hard to be like The Muppet Show, and there was an interview where Frank Oz said that it should have been all new ideas instead of a mix of new and old, but by saying that, do they mean that a new Muppet show should only have new characters? Do they mean that it shouldn't be variety or sketch comedy? Or do they mean something else?