The Adults and Snuffy

[sesamemuppetfan]

In that case, Michael Earl or Mary Robinson wouldn't have had the fun of being involved.

That's true, but still, I can't imagine how they kept up with this gag for so long after that episode!

 

[Drtooth]

As you all know there was of course the episode where Big Bird and Snuffy almost end their friendship due to the adults convincing Big Bird that Snuffleupaguses don't exist. While the 2 large Muppets are sadly hugging each other goodbye, Snuffy's teardrops start soaking Big Bird's feathers, which leads to Big Bird reaching the conclusion that Snuffy must be real if the tears are real. In my personal opinion, THAT should have been when the adults would finally see that Snuffy was real. I just don't see how they kept up with this gag for I don't know how many more years after that episode! Does anyone else agree?

That also, to me, is when the joke would have gone from cute, Looney Tunes gags to sadistic non-humor/abusive to a good guy character. Very cynic and dark for a kid's show (at least for a non-Japanese one).

Yeah, I'll admit that sometimes those jokes were funny, a lot of the time tedious, sometimes just plain mean. It's one of the few things from the old days of Sesame Street I'm GLAD are gone. Heck, Elmo was present when Snuffy was revealed. That alone says they played that stupid joke too long.

 

[Drtooth]

Now that I think about it, the real problem with this joke concept is the abusive Flat Earth Atheism inherent.

Think about it...

The adults live on a street with a giant talking bird, orange and yellow people who are children yet not exactly children who can somehow afford to live in a New York apartment, with a race of fuzzy monsters mundanely living along side them, that's constantly visited by celebrities, invaded by aliens, had the freaking robots from Star Wars and the Wicked Witch of the Cockadoody West just show up... and you tell me that they can't believe the existence of what amounts to a Mastodon without the tusks or ears? And that's not including the fairy tale figures that started to pop up since the 80's, since that all happened after.


That is one heck of a logical reach-around for a joke.

 

[minor muppetz]

I recently found an article about the 16th season, which mentions that some of the adults would finally believe in Snuffy (I'm not sure if that was all supposed to be spread out throughout the season - like Maria would believe Big Bird in one episode, then Linda would believe him later, then Gordon would believe him in a later episode - or if they all believed him in the season premiere). Previously, I assumed that when there started to be concerns over this running gag they would have worked on the episode right away, but then the article I saw mentioned that first they thought it was important to show the adults believing Big Bird without evidence first. But with that in mind, I feel like maybe the season should have ended with all of the adults seeing Snuffy, instead of the season 17 premier.

But then I thought of something else: By having the adults see Snuffy at the beginning of the season, they wouldn't have to deal with new viewers seeing the older episodes before that episode, as they most likely didn't rerun any episodes that mention Snuffy being imaginary afterwards (they would have likely repeated some street stories from previous seasons, but probably not any involving Snuffy).

 

[cjd874]

I think that Sesame Street really pushed boundaries for a kid's show. This long-running gag is an example of that. Nothing like this had ever been done before, and after those early 1980s reports of child abuse began surfacing on the news, the CTW staff must have decided to end the "imaginary friend" thing altogether. That shows how pioneering SS was, in a way…a trial and error concept, I suppose. They learned what not to do, and ended up paving the way for many shows afterward. (Yes, even Barney)

Another thought that struck me: I wonder if there were episodes where kids on the Street would see Snuffy and try to tell the adults, only for the adults to dismiss them. I'd be quite surprised if something like that aired back in the day, considering that the running gag only occurred with Big Bird and the adults.

 

[minor muppetz]

I think that Sesame Street really pushed boundaries for a kid's show. This long-running gag is an example of that. Nothing like this had ever been done before

Actually, I know that on Time for Beany, Cecil was originally only seen by Beany, with the others thinking Cecil was an imaginary friend, before the character was finally seen by the others (which I guess happened before the animated Beany and Cecil series). I don't know if the captain or other characters were as annoyed about Cecil as the adults were about Snuffy, or if there were constant near-misses (and I'm not counting scenes where Cecil entered right after another character left the scene).

 

[Drtooth]

I think that Sesame Street really pushed boundaries for a kid's show. This long-running gag is an example of that. Nothing like this had ever been done before, and after those early 1980s reports of child abuse began surfacing on the news, the CTW staff must have decided to end the "imaginary friend" thing altogether. That shows how pioneering SS was, in a way…a trial and error concept, I suppose. They learned what not to do, and ended up paving the way for many shows afterward. (Yes, even Barney)

I'm starting to think that was just a rationalization they gave instead of saying "jeez, this joke was actually fairly stupid and made the adult characters look like jerks." Some of the almost got hims were funny, I'd admit. But like I said... when the adults are able to accept the crazy, improbable, fantastic things on the show but disbelieve the existence of hairy, earless elephants, you know there's a gap in logic that only exists to tell a lame joke.

Somehow, if Big Bird were the gigantic dip he was in season one, it would have worked. But considering the bird became more of an adorable, inquisitive child, the jokes are pretty harsh.

 

[minor muppetz]

Suddenly, I sort of feel like Follow That Bird would have been a great time to reveal that Snuffy was real. Well, except for the fact that the movie didn't do well in theaters.

In the movie, nobody mentions the fact that the adults didn't believe in Snuffy, but that could have been a plot point.

Like, in the movie, Big Bird is initially reluctant to move away and live with a bird family, but it doesn't take too long to convince him. Perhaps there could have been more time for Big Bird to decide, he could have talked about it to his friends, leading to them making a big deal out of how he wasn't real, which could have been what caused Big Bird to finally decide to move (so that he wouldn't have to deal with their "Snuffy is imaginary" attitude anymore). It would have also been a good ironic echo later when Big Bird decides to go back to Sesame Street when the Dodos pretty much say he can't visit because he's not a bird. Maybe the adults would finally see Snuffy while Big Bird was gone, or maybe it would have been better if they'd seen him at the end after Big Bird had returned.

Or maybe it would have been better if when Big Bird was deciding on whether to move and live with a bird family, he decided to talk it over with the others, but before any of them knew what was going on, Snuffy was brought up, they made a big deal out of him being imaginary, and Big Bird decided to make his decision. Like he asked all of his friends to get together because he had something important to talk with them about, they thought they were all there, Big Bird mentions that they should wait for Snuffy, they all complain because they don't think he's real, and Big Bird gets so annoyed and emotionally hurt that he makes his decision without talking to them about it.

What I've just been talking about reminds me of a post I recently saw on the Tough Pigs forum, where somebody thought it was odd that the movie makes a big deal out of Big Bird and Snuffy being best friends yet since the adults thought he was imaginary they couldn't have Snuffy come along to search for Big Bird (even if there was no such issue, could Snuffy have fit in any of the vehicles?).

 

[sesamemuppetfan]

@minor muppetz I love your thinking there with using Snuffy as a plot for this beloved film! *inserts an imaginary (pun absolutely not intended) Snuffy smiley*

@Drtooth In regards to your posts from September...you're absolutely right! 45 years ago today, Gordon proclaimed that "everything" happens on this particular street! So why are they unable to believe that there's such thing as a creature called a Snuffleupagus? Personally, I don't see how they were at it for 14 years.

Think about it...

The adults live on a street with a giant talking bird, orange and yellow people who are children yet not exactly children who can somehow afford to live in a New York apartment, with a race of fuzzy monsters mundanely living along side them, that's constantly visited by celebrities, invaded by aliens, had the freaking robots from Star Wars and the Wicked Witch of the Cockadoody West just show up... and you tell me that they can't believe the existence of what amounts to a Mastodon without the tusks or ears? And that's not including the fairy tale figures that started to pop up since the 80's, since that all happened after.


That is one heck of a logical reach-around for a joke.

I'm starting to think that was just a rationalization they gave instead of saying "jeez, this joke was actually fairly stupid and made the adult characters look like jerks." Some of the almost got hims were funny, I'd admit. But like I said... when the adults are able to accept the crazy, improbable, fantastic things on the show but disbelieve the existence of hairy, earless elephants, you know there's a gap in logic that only exists to tell a lame joke.

Somehow, if Big Bird were the gigantic dip he was in season one, it would have worked. But considering the bird became more of an adorable, inquisitive child, the jokes are pretty harsh.

For real, though!

 

[Drtooth]

Notice the second I mention that it was an abuse of Flat Earth Atheism, someone posted it on the TVtropes page for that specific trope?