The perks and pitfalls of creating an online web series.

[crazy chris]

Hey guys!

Wanted to start up a conversation to ask what everyone's opinions are on the pros and cons of online web series. And some of your personal experiences on the subject. Thought it might help others who are either in the midst of producing a show or hope to in the future.

Our story: We spent 6 months in pre production and another 4 months in post production getting our first show off the ground... we walked the proverbial online streets for months attempting to build an audience and create buzz and excitement for our show building off our puppet theaters fanbase and also attempting to rouse the puppet community's support. I feel it worked to a certain extent but in some ways it feels a bit lackluster.

So then the natural questions arise.... and we ask ourselves... was the show terrible? What could we do differently? Are we completely unlikeable...etc... and although i would never recommend anyone go down the path of self doubt...it is purely human nature.

We chose a children's show because that's really our "wheelhouse" and was really the core of initial audience via the puppet theater. So i completely understand if the show isnt as desirable to puppeteers who prefer a more adult show. So im sure that no doubt cut into the attention the show might have received.

We have big plans for our next three episodes which will be a 3 part story arch of pure action and adventure... So im really really excited to get to work on it! But i also wonder if anyone who didnt particularly feel the first episode was adventurous enough...or not up to par would even give the show a second chance.

QUESTION TO OTHER SERIES CREATERS: How are you coping with lackluster interest in your project? What are your tricks and secrets to success?

I see certain online shows like pancake manor and glove and boots doing absolutely amazing... and it gives me hope... but it also convinces me that a certain amount of luck is involved. Right place...right time maybe?

Don't get me wrong...in no way did i believe success on any level would come over night... but just wanted to create this thread as a sort of "support group" for everyone going through the same sort of thing with their project.

Thoughts and comments welcome by all!!

cc

 

[crazy chris]

As far as the PROS of creating a series....

We have had an absolute blast!! Getting together with like minded creative people is PRICELESS!! And seeing something you created come to life on the screen is the most wonderful feeling in the world!!

cc

 

[Muppet Master]

Well, I have a webseries called Late Night with Sam the Snowman, I made a thread for it if you are interested. It is about a talk show host, Sam the Snowman, and the troubles at his studio, usually with a special guest star he is interviewing, it is a family show, and not meant to be just for kids. Anyways the pros are that I feel accomplished, because I am making a series that I love to make, writting the scripts myself, and it can not get canceled, also my webseries does not have a budget like yours, so it does not take that long to make an episode, though writting a script is a different story. The cons are that I do not feel that I have a real fanbase, I am not sure, but I doubt it is very big, so in all I love making my webseries, but I wish more people would watch the show I put some real time and effort to make for audiences to watch.

 

[crazy chris]

Thanks for commenting MM!! I will hunt down your post and check out the show!! Look forward to it!!

cc

 

[Muppet Master]

Thanks for commenting MM!! I will hunt down your post and check out the show!! Look forward to it!!

cc

Um, could you please change your subscription to the channel "Late Night with Sam the Snowman", because that is the channel that new episodes will be posted, "Robber Stopper" is just my channel, and I look forward to watching your series, even if it is just for kids, I could care less, thanks.

 

[crazy chris]

done!

cc

 

[Muppet Master]

done!

cc

Thanks, I really appreciate it, I hope you like my webseries, I will also watch yours.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Our story: We spent 6 months in pre production and another 4 months in post production getting our first show off the ground... we walked the proverbial online streets for months attempting to build an audience and create buzz and excitement for our show building off our puppet theaters fanbase and also attempting to rouse the puppet community's support. I feel it worked to a certain extent but in some ways it feels a bit lackluster.

...I see certain online shows like pancake manor and glove and boots doing absolutely amazing... and it gives me hope... but it also convinces me that a certain amount of luck is involved. Right place...right time maybe?

It's not luck, I think it's only sometimes timing. What it is is a lot of work, discipline and a lot of patience.

Years ago at a panel discussion in New York someone asked Jane Henson when there was going to be another Muppet Show (this was before the acquisition by Disney I believe). I don't remember her exact reply, but it was something to the effect of "people don't realize that it took twenty years to make the first one!"

I've always loved that interaction.

Pancake Manor started in 2011. They have accrued 45 millions views, but it's taken almost four years.

Glove and Boots started in 2004. They didn't really hit it big in terms of audience size until about 2011 or so. That's seven years.

Jim Henson started the Muppets in 1955. We all know about Sam and Friends now, but in 1959 if you asked most people outside of Washington, D.C. about it they would probably say they'd never heard of it. Although Jim Henson was on TV and had some early success, he also spent years of his career very frustrated until Sesame Street and that was fourteen years later.

Even after the success of Sesame Street - which was huge - he still had to wait six more years, until 1975, to do the Muppet Show. That's twenty years.

There's a direct correlation between the amount of time these people have had to spend slowly learning their craft and building an audience and the size of the audience and their eventual success.

Sometimes people get lucky and make a viral hit and get a lot of attention quickly, but those people usually fall in to two categories...they're either lucky or they've been honing their craft for a long time in obscurity. The lucky ones never last. The ones that spend years honing their craft, constantly trying to innovate and improve? They're ready and prepared when they finally get a big break.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, relax. You've been at this for ten months and put out one episode. In web series terms, you're a week old baby. Keep going, try some new things, make a new episode and repeat constantly for a few years. That's how almost everybody does it.

Realistically, it takes most people 2-3 years of consistent, sustained effort to build a large audience. Many of those people just started making videos for fun, they weren't trying to be successful or get millions of views. That comes later.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

I wanted to add that I think the amount of time it takes you to produce an episode could be an impediment to success. If you ask most people who have been successful on YouTube (or YouTube itself) they will tell you one of the keys to success is making a lot of videos and consistently putting out new material.

There are a few exceptions to that, but most of the top YouTubers follow that formula because it works.

Why do a 3 part story arc of pure action and adventure? That's difficult and time-consuming (probably expensive too). I don't think your audience necessarily needs that (most audiences don't actually know what they want until they see it anyway).

Why not do some live chats on YouTube with your characters interacting with your audience? It doesn't matter if only three or four people show up, just entertain them. Build meaningful connections, become even better entertainers. YouTube is an interactive medium, take advantage of that!

It's a bit like street performing...it won't make you famous, but it will make you really good. The key skill to acquire isn't how to get views on YouTube, or viral marketing or any of that stuff. The key is to learn how to make a connection with the audience. The key is to be insanely great. That takes time and a lot of practice.

Characters and the connection your audience feels towards them is much more important than action or adventure. That's why Guardians of the Galaxy has made $600 million in the past month and nobody even remembers that Hercules came out in the summer.

One of the most brilliant things I've ever seen done with a puppet was a twenty minute riff that Martin Robinson did with Telly at a puppetry festival several years ago. He totally improvised off the top of his head and performed until he had to put his arms down. He didn't need props, or anything fancy...not even a script. All he had was a great character and the fact that he's an insanely great puppeteer. You could put the video of that on Youtube (it exists) and it would get millions of views.

Also, if you're going to do a movie, have Marvel produce it. I hear that helps.

 

[crazy chris]

All great points and fantastic information Andrew!!

LOL....I kinda knew that i might get that sort response after making this post... i sorta tried to explain myself in the last paragraph when i said "i realize success isnt overnight" but probably didnt do it properly.

To clarify...I'm really not disappointed with the response for the show... far from it....we went into it with a goal of 30 viewers ...lol... a laughably small goal for giggles... but we figured if we set that small of a goal we could never really be too disappointed... So the love and support weve received so far has been amazing.... and i truly didnt expect anything more... nor do i expect more in the future.

I think what i meant by "lackluster" referred to the fact that our actual episode received much less action than everything else leading up to it... see thats another thing i must point out... if you look at our channel... it isnt just one lonely episode waiting to be watched... we have readily produced content bi monthly since we started... there is A LOT of content on there so far...

We also have a large following from our Puppet Theater that has been surprisingly missing from our viewership ....i think this can be chalked up to the fact that Facebook (our main outlet for passing the word) has implemented so many "governers" and ways of stifling small businesses and have pretty much blocked our attempts to advertize the project properly on social media.

Case in point... our theaters fb page has 1300 followers... however our posts receive 30 or 40 views... Ive paid and paid for "boosts" and the content still seems to stay hidden... IT'S CRIMINAL!

But i digress

On the subject of "LUCK"....I must apologize for the poor wording by dropping the term "luck"... but must explain my meaning a bit further... THERE IS STILL "LUCK" (if you will) INVOLVED... even with YEARS of work a show or web series MUST have the proper "butterfly effect" at some point in it's existence to become a "hit"

Take for instance a show like "Freaks and Geeks"... probably one of the best written amazingly cast shows of all times... yet it was canceled before its first season ended. Those actors and directors went on to AMAZING fame and a stellar body of work... but that show never found its audience because for whatever reason... that "lucky" moment never happened.

Please understand that I LOVE glove and boots... and RESPECT pancake manor... but i think most people would agree that as far as technical puppetry is involved ...they are both lacking...They do ,however, make up for that TEN FOLD with their actual writing and content... now PLEASE dont misconstrue that i believe ,first off, that proper puppetry is the be all end all.... and PLEASE do not misconstrue that i believe MY show has better puppetry ... We dont...lol... what im saying is... that a show can have its faults and still find a loving and respecting audience if that serendipity or "LUCK" steps in....in some form or manner. I think of channels like "puppets and sh*t" which are absolutely genius and hilarious and have been pumping out content for a long time and still remain dormant with minimal views. So theres got to be some magical force that helps things along at times... we simply cannot deny that... it's not to discount anyone's work ethic...or talent... but it is simply the way life works sometimes....

As an aside...Ive watched the "pirate" project that the glove and boots guys put out before they did the mario / fafa stuff... and its obvious now just how much theyve grown as content makers... lol

But back to our content... My crew is scattered down the east coast...and we all have other careers that keep us from churning out show after show... so ive created sort of an A team and a B team.... in order to keep the ball rolling and keep content coming... We actually have 10 different "short form" sub series in the planning that will be EXACTLY what you pointed out.... these include Dr T doing little science experiments... a costumed robot dancing with kids segment... a short story from the ship called "Kelvins Log" in which kelvin tells about something that funny that happened that particular day on the ship and we see it played out as he narrates. Music videos... odd cooking segments... letters from gabby......etc etc etc... LOTS OF FUN STUFF!

These will allow us to add short SKIT type segments on a regular basis that doesnt require a whole lot of effects... nor would they require a half dozen puppeteers. So keep an eye out for those!

The Episodes to us are sort of like if a tv series put out movies at the end of each season... To explain... we hope to have a constant flow of content in smaller doses that culminates 2 or 3 times a year with a full blow exciting episode...

The beauty of the 3 part ...highly serialized "Adventure" episodes is that they can feel and look vastly different than our sub content...and be a treat when they do come.... and to be completely honest... we are doing them because WE WANT TO! I'm NOT trying to be a youtube sensation....im trying to make stuff that i enjoy watching...and making... and although i adore our first episode... its not really my original vision.... I wanted a sort of adventure filled fraggle rock on a space ship...and it felt a bit more sesame street to me.... but i think it works ok as an introductory episode...

Anyways... I do appreciate all the input... But really really wanted to explain myself a bit more.

cc