TV Tropes

[minor muppetz]

Some tropes seem to be very similar to each other (I guess similar to how this forum has threads that are similar, like the "Questions About Anything" and "You ever notice... and what's the deal?" threads... and in a way the "You know what" thread is kinda similar to the "You ever notice..." thread). For example, I can't comprehend the difference between "Villainy-free villain" and "Designated villain". In fact some of the same characters are featured on both pages.

And I don't see why "Long Runners" and "Archive Panic" need separate pages. "Archive Panic" refers to when a series or comic or something (the main page description seems to focus on long-running web comics) has so many installments that it can take a really long time to get through everything. And Archive Panic doesn't mention every long runner.... The "Newspaper Comics" section is really short, it seems to be limited to just a few comics that either have every strip on a single website or complete book collections (well, attempts to be complete, we still have a few more years before the last volume of The Complete Peanuts).

I would think maybe the "Archive Panic" section is for long-runners where every installment is available, but then it also lists Saturday Night Live, The Simpsons, and Sesame Street, all of which are still on the air, all of which don't have every episode on DVD (they can't put every episode on DVD until the shows end, though Sesame Street and SNL still have a long way to go). Until recently almost every episode of SNL (albeit heavily edited) was on Netflix (last I checked it only has episodes from seasons 37 and 38), and I recently read that two episodes were actually not on Netflix. It seems like whenever I watch reruns of The Simpsons, it's always episodes not on DVD (I had recently wondered if they stopped rerunning full frame episodes, but saw one the other day). And of course there's hundreds of Sesame Street episodes not seen in years (and don't have Muppet Wiki pages).

And speaking of the Long Runners page, it lists various things that SNL has survived. While some do seem like a big deal that they survived (numerous cast and crew changes, writers strikes, seasons so bad the show was almost canceled), some of them don't seem like a big deal. Like the deaths of certain cast members, most of whom were no longer on the show when they died (there's a few names there I don't recall knowing about), having three producers (I would think that a TV show can have different directors for different episodes), three announcers, and a few other things I can't remember right now (I'm on a roll with all the things I'm thinking about today).

 

[Drtooth]

What I don't get is how every animation error falls into "Off Model."

Off model refers to and only to when animators, or licensees either do not refer to the model sheet, or screw up the character likenesses in some extent.

Off Model is NOT character talking out of the wrong character's mouth, miscoloring, mis-layering, or just overall choppy animation.

Not to mention those who purposely go off model for the sake of a wacky looking cartoon like Mighty Mouse:The New Adventures or Ren and Stimpy. Lumping animation errors into cartoons that purposely ignore rigid animation offends a cartoon fan like myself. Sloppy animation isn't always cheap animation... quite the opposite. Mighty Mouse TNA was expensive, and showed it by having no less than 6 clip shows in the show's run. Then you look at Adventures of Super Mario Bros 3, some of the worst animation on a TV show I've ever seen, mind you, and it's stiff and cheap looking.

I ask you... do those shows belong together?

 

[minor muppetz]

I kinda feel the same way about "Hey, it's that voice!" and "Hey, it's that guy!" Anybody who's acted in multiple roles could easily get that. And a lot of voice actors do use a lot of the same voices for many roles.

It seems "Hey, it's that guy!" should be more appropriate for actors who aren't particularly known by the general public, but do get fairly memorable supporting or cameo roles in a lot of movies and television series (maybe that's more guest roles on television shows) but aren't exactly known by name (like some of the supporting actors from many Adam Sandler movies, like Peter Dante, Allen Covert, and Nick Swordson), or maybe a typecast actor who isn't as well-known as his best-known character (meaning people associate the actor with that role to the point of typecasting, but can't be bothered to remember the name off-hand).

 

[D'Snowth]

What I don't get is how every animation error falls into "Off Model."

I haven't come across a lot of that yet, but basically, much of what I've read about Off Model pretty much refers to exactly that... look at the pages for, say, COW AND CHICKEN (okay, admittedly, I added those), RECESS, or the 1987 TMNT cartoon, they pretty much list specific episodes, or even seasons, that were outsourced to different animation studios, and how either the animation style was significantly different from most episodes, or the overall animation quality is clearly on a much lower and cheaper budget. Matter of fact, I was just rewatch "Turtle Terminator" yesterday, I forgot how horrible the animation for that episode was (not only that, but for some reason, they threw away to still frames in one brief sequence where Irma accidentally steps on Shredder's foot).

But what I don't get is this: TV Tropes has an index for 65-episode cartoons produced for syndication right? Well, I started up a YKTTW to index 52-episode cartoons produced for cable, and somehow, that shouldn't be a trope as far as everyone is concerned. We have an index for 65-episode syndication cartoons, but we can't have an index for 52-episode cable cartoons? Similarly, not too long ago, I proposed aother YKTTW where characters on a TV show make nods and references to their time slots, but it was discarded because apparently it was already covered by Leaning On The Fourth Wall. Well, guess what? Somebody else recently started up the same YKTTW, and this time around, it's like everybody changed their minds and now it should be its own trope. What gives?

 

[minor muppetz]

I just saw "Pretty in Pink" for the first time, and then looked at that page on TV Tropes, and it's said that this movie is obviously '80s even for an '80s movie. But as I was watching it, while it does have a lot of '80s styles and music, I feel it looks more like the '90s version of the '80s. Don't know why I feel that way, but it feels to me like it could have been a modern movie that takes place in the '80s. Perhaps "reality is unrealistic" for me?

 

[minor muppetz]

I just found the Director Displacement page, which lists instances where the wrong person is often cited as the director when they didn't direct, though they often are people involved with the film (like producers and writers).

I looked to see if it mentioned anything about Jim Henson. I would have thought maybe the fans would mistakenly think he directed The Muppet Movie and The Muppets Take Manhattan (well, I think a lot of casual fans know that Frank Oz directed MTM), maybe even The Muppet Show. I think fans used to think that Jim Henson directed Youth '68, which was actually directed by Jon Stone (when this fact was discovered by somebody who saw a screening there was discussion at Muppet Wiki over whether it should be in the "Henson Films" category).

And yet the only Muppet-related thing on that page relates to The Muppets, saying that more fans are aware of Jason Segel writing the film than James Bobin directing it. But that's not really an example of people mistaking a writer or whatever as the director.

 

[beatnikchick300]

Something that bugs me about TV tropes is that their forums are supposedly very anti-complaining, yet there's a lot of complaining done there that never gets shouted down (like whining about people who hate the newer shows on Nickelodeon, calling those people "nostalgia whores" [classy], and acting like characters like Scrappy Doo and Lisa Simpson are the devil in cartoon form, but accusing people who complain about characters who are actually jerks [like Roger from American Dad, and just about all the main cast of Family Guy] of being "overly sensitive"). I even went to the thread about why people hate Lisa Simpson in the Western Animation forum, and called people hypocrites because none of the accusations of Lisa being a jerk are ever met with accusations of over-sensitivity. If they want to be anti-complaining, they need to be consistent with it, and not act like some kinds of complaining are more acceptable than others.

 

[Drtooth]

Well, to me, Lisa's unpopularity comes from the fact that she's the writer's mouth piece and Creators' pet to the point where it comes off like those kinds of fan fiction written by fans who are obsessed with a character. The last several seasons kinda focused more on her than any member of the family. Not to mention the obviousness of her political stances. Which, I'm guessing fuels most of those complaints. Roger gets a pass due to those who love comic sociopaths. The writers really made him kinda creepy and dangerous as the show went on.

Personally, I just kinda miss Lisa being a smarter version of Bart, but that's just me. I could list all the things about The Simpsons I miss, and that's actually not even in the top ten.

And yes, that kind of nostalgia vs new stuff argument gets me to pull my hair out. There's great new stuff, terrible new stuff, great old stuff, and terrible old stuff. Good and terrible have always existed. Matter of taste became quality for some reason. I don't get enjoyment through disliking anything through matter of taste. I get more enjoyment from disliking something that has no redeeming values (like Garsey's Wing... shudder shudder). There's always more to get out of a mutual target than a matter of taste.

That said, I don't see why they pulled "Dads" from the So Bad It's Horrible, yet I also don't think Wacky World of Tex Avery belongs there. Yes, it annoys classic cartoon fans (that hate any character revival outright no matter what anyway), and it isn't exactly great... but the fact that's there and Kwicky Koala (which is a MUCH more offensive use of Tex Avery, if you ask me... at least WWOTA makes me laugh and contains cartoon violence) doesn't even make the So Okay it's Average list baffles me.

 

[beatnikchick300]

Well, to me, Lisa's unpopularity comes from the fact that she's the writer's mouth piece and Creators' pet to the point where it comes off like those kinds of fan fiction written by fans who are obsessed with a character. The last several seasons kinda focused more on her than any member of the family. Not to mention the obviousness of her political stances. Which, I'm guessing fuels most of those complaints. Roger gets a pass due to those who love comic sociopaths. The writers really made him kinda creepy and dangerous as the show went on.

Personally, I just kinda miss Lisa being a smarter version of Bart, but that's just me. I could list all the things about The Simpsons I miss, and that's actually not even in the top ten.

And yes, that kind of nostalgia vs new stuff argument gets me to pull my hair out. There's great new stuff, terrible new stuff, great old stuff, and terrible old stuff. Good and terrible have always existed. Matter of taste became quality for some reason. I don't get enjoyment through disliking anything through matter of taste. I get more enjoyment from disliking something that has no redeeming values (like Garsey's Wing... shudder shudder). There's always more to get out of a mutual target than a matter of taste.

That said, I don't see why they pulled "Dads" from the So Bad It's Horrible, yet I also don't think Wacky World of Tex Avery belongs there. Yes, it annoys classic cartoon fans (that hate any character revival outright no matter what anyway), and it isn't exactly great... but the fact that's there and Kwicky Koala (which is a MUCH more offensive use of Tex Avery, if you ask me... at least WWOTA makes me laugh and contains cartoon violence) doesn't even make the So Okay it's Average list baffles me.

You've kind of missed the point of my rant. I don't give a care why Lisa gets the Ron the Death Eater Treatment while Roger gets the Draco in Leather Pants treatment (to borrow two opposite TV Tropes terms). My problem is that on one hand, TV Tropes touts itself as having a nauseating infatuation with neutrality and not bad-mouthing anything (that's problematic in itself, and I've ranted about that before), but yet the highers-up are a lot more okay with some complaining than they are with other kinds. How you, or I, or anyone actually feels about certain characters, or whether new or old shows are better or worse, is irrelevant. If TV tropes wants a neutral image, they can't be hypocrites about it. If they don't, then they shouldn't put up a neutral front.

 

[Drtooth]

You've kind of missed the point of my rant. I don't give a care why Lisa gets the Ron the Death Eater Treatment while Roger gets the Draco in Leather Pants treatment (to borrow two opposite TV Tropes terms).

Just making conversation, actually.

I get your point roundly. I've jumped out of various message boards for various reasons, and that sort of complainy conduct is why I stay far far faaaaar away from any semblance of a Transformers fanbase. I can see parallels between the two. Their wikipedia (which is awesome by the way) tries very hard to make peace between the nonstop complaining fan forums, often making fun of them in the process. There's a "True Fan" entry and a "Ruined Forever" entry. Both address the worst of their own fanbase.

Seems like TVTropes's main page wants to try to address those facts with entries like "Complaining about Shows you Don't Watch" and the like, but I've heard horrible things about edit wars, and it seems the main page is highly regulated because of troubles in the past. But I'd suspect that the forum is where members circumvent that sort of thing, and bring on as much discord as possible. Then of course, there are entries on the main page that seem passive aggressive. I'm sure those managed to sneak by too.

Unfortunately, that sort of thing can't be suppressed no matter how hard mods and respectful members try.