Stage Performance Focus Puppet or Puppeteer?

[Frogpuppeteer]

little but of back story to this as some of you know currently i am on the crew of a local Avenue A performance. well my job is pretty much puppet wrangler and teacher, making sure the puppeteers know how to make the puppet come to life

now i will admit when first hired i felt that i would have a challenge, in all my years of puppetry whenever i have dealt with Theater actors and folk ive always been looked down on

well last nights rehearsal came and went and near the end most of the puppeteers came to me and said they they feel the choreography is taking away from the puppetry side and makes the focus more on the performers.

i huddled the gang up and asked if they all felt this way and the general view was yes..except for one, the guy who plays Princeton has become much of a diva and wants to focus on him , with the puppet nothing more than something on his had he is forced to wear, he has actually begun showing disqust over the puppetry part of the show

im asking my puppeteer friends and muppet family, what do you think? should the focus be only on the performers? if you have seen the show do you only look at the people and not the puppets? should i say something?

 

[crazy chris]

This is a no brainer... the greatest gift that performer could give the audience is for them to not even realize he was there...i find the avenue Q style of puppetry so distracting... but i can only imagine if the actors are hamming it up with no regard for the puppets

in all honesty... if it were just about the human performers...then they might as well just do "Oklahoma" instead.

cc

 

[DannyRWW]

Now I haven't seen a production of Avenue Q but I would think that the choreography would be focused on the puppet movement...now when I block out choreography for puppets hsows we are hiding behind a stage so its eay to focus on the puppet movements (well easier as Choreography and song perofrmances are not my thing really). SO is there some way to guide it towards puppet choreagraphy with movement of actors to be only made in the sense of getting puppets to their positions......Yes Puppets do not have feet as such but you probably know more about puppet movement than most people I know. Also a thought what will the performers be wearing. I would guess black as to not draw attention to them but to the puppets (except the 'human' cast of course ) But yes as I am rambling as I tend to do...I do think the puppets should be the focus....I think thats one reason they were able to pull off having one actor play several characters. Its a different format of puppetry but being as gifted a puppeteer as you are I'm sure you can make it work where the focus is there (though I know its easier to perform than direct others to do so.....)

 

[Slackbot]

When I saw Avenue Q I was startled to realize that I was watching both the puppeteer and the puppet, but they only registered as one character. Princeton's puppeteer could dance around, and it would register as Princeton dancing. At one point Rod looked like he was about to burst into tears--because of the expression on the puppeteer's face! Even Nicky, who had two puppeteers (one being the right hand) still was, well, Nicky.

The performances I attended (yeah, plural, they put on a really great show, so I went several times) were all sold out, and the audience loved them. There was no attempt to separate the characters and the puppeteers; the puppeteers wore clothes similar to the puppets, and had similar body language and expressions. And, somehow, they registered as one character, not two. None of the audience seemed to be thrown by the visible puppeteers, or even to think about it at all; they just accepted it. Even my mother was fine, and she's no puppetry fan. (When we got to the theater and she saw the poster she said, "Wait a minute, this is a puppet show?" "Just trust me, Mom, okay?")

 

[Frogpuppeteer]

i should specify in this production, the directors chosen to cast each puppet as a different person so we can have more of a full cast

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Slackbot is right, it's not a question one favouring one or the other, the two have to work together.

Avenue Q is kind of unique in that the puppeteer and the puppet are balanced and usually blend in to a seamless performance (at least when the show is staged correctly!). It requires a hybrid performances and the performers have to make very deliberate, very specific acting and puppetry choices to pull it off successfully. I imagine it's a difficult balancing act to pull off.

I have seen several different productions (the original, locally produced shows, and the North American tour, which was probably the same one that Slackbot saw) and the original Broadway cast was vastly superior to all the others simply because it was a cast of performers who were veteran puppeteers that understood (or at least figured out) the relationship between the puppet and the puppeteer.

Watch this video of the original cast and how the puppeteers mirror their puppet:

Because the puppet and puppeteer mirror each other the expressiveness of the actor actually adds additional emotion to the puppet, which of course has a much more limited range of expression. It's a neat trick.

Here's another example:

Now watch this video of the Manilla cast, which is trying to do the same thing, but not as successfully:

It's very hard to put your finger on why, but the Manilla performance just doesn't seem quite the same does it? It's not because the actors aren't good, it's because the puppeteers aren't mirroring the puppet as consistently.

Usually, when you're visible as a puppeteer on stage you should always look at/focus on your puppet because it provides a visual cue to the audience, telling them to do the same. Because of this phenomenon, in Avenue Q when the puppeteers don't mirror the puppet properly and the puppeteer looks at the puppet or vice versa, I think there is a lot of confusion for the audience. Their focus is split, they become distracted and the illusion is shattered.

 

[Slackbot]

I have seen several different productions (the original, locally produced shows, and the North American tour, which was probably the same one that Slackbot saw)

Color me jealous. I never saw the tour. The production I saw was by the Horizon Theater, an Atlanta outfit. I went in, expecting something of "regional production" quality, and instead I was blown away by the show.

For some reason they used different designs for the puppets, which surprised me at first, but in action they came across well.

It's very hard to put your finger on why, but the Manilla performance just doesn't seem quite the same does it? It's not because the actors aren't good, it's because the puppeteers aren't mirroring the puppet as consistently.

I get your point, and I agree in principle, but that's not what I see in the Manila video. Kate's human seems to be mirroring her puppet (whose eye focus looks off to me), but Princeton is so "yappy" I can't see anything else when he sings. He looks like an actor with a puppet on his hand, not someone who has put himself into the puppet.

Usually, when you're visible as a puppeteer on stage you should always look at/focus on your puppet because it provides a visual cue to the audience, telling them to do the same. Because of this phenomenon, in Avenue Q when the puppeteers don't mirror the puppet properly and the puppeteer looks at the puppet or vice versa, I think there is a lot of confusion for the audience. Their focus is split, they become distracted and the illusion is shattered.

Oooh, very good point. I'm an amateur puppeteer, and I don't know if I do this or not. I'm going to have to keep an eye on myself next time I take Janken for a walk, see whether I'm looking for him or at him.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

For some reason they used different designs for the puppets, which surprised me at first, but in action they came across well.

That was likely because of rights issues. I believe that Rick Lyon (who created the original designs) owns the rights to them. He builds puppets for all or most of the major productions. Lower budget productions will sometimes get a local builder to make puppets for their show, but they cannot copy Rick's designs.

I get your point, and I agree in principle, but that's not what I see in the Manila video. Kate's human seems to be mirroring her puppet (whose eye focus looks off to me), but Princeton is so "yappy" I can't see anything else when he sings. He looks like an actor with a puppet on his hand, not someone who has put himself into the puppet.

Well, that was kind of what I meant by not mirroring, but that video is perhaps not the best example (it was what I could find on YouTube quickly). If the puppet's eye focus or lip sync is off it's not going to look right and the problem is just magnified.