What Is Considered A Muppet?

[beaker]

Even after the Disney buyout and the splintering of ownership(divided by JHC, Disney and Sesame Workshop) many fans of the legacy of Jim Henson generally consider any puppet or full body costume made by JHC outside of the creature shop/fantasy realm to be a "Muppet". Be it Bear in the Big blue house characters, Sesame Street, Fraggle Rock, etc(I personally consider Henson Alternative characters to all be Muppets, especially given many of the puppets were formerly used on Muppet productions) The UK show Mopatop really brought this idea to light, as an endless array of puppets from all sorts of JHC productions appeared on the show. And most if not all of the 1950's-1980's advertising puppets by Jim Henson are considered Muppets.

But then, there is the gray area. So what is considered a Muppet? Pros and cons? Yay or nay?

I present the following:

* Bad Andy: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Bad_Andy
While conceived by the Jim Henson Company, the puppet was built by Animax Designs for Dominoes. Tho, Muppet wiki considers him to be a Muppet

*Flat Eric: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Flat_Eric
A cult hit across Europe, he was a character for Levi's Jeans in the 1990's built by the Jim Henson Company based on the design of Quentin Dupieux.

*Sid The Science Kid: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Sid_the_Science_Kid
If this show had come out before the Disney buyout, there may have been more of a reason to lump this in with Muppets. However, while its the most visible post buyout project for the JHC; one has to wonder if a purely digital form can be considered "Muppet"esque

*Dinosaurs: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Dinosaurs
Jim Henson company built the characters, as well as performed most of the characters; all from a Jim Henson concept(althought it was a Disney production) The show featured cameos by puppets used on Fraggle Rock and other productions.

*Phillie Phanatic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillie_Phanatic
Built and designed by Bonnie Erickson, who was one of the main JHC puppet builders and creator of Miss Piggy, Statler, Waldorf, Newsman, etc.

*Wubbulous World of Dr Seuss: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Wubbulous_World This one is a tough one, because essentially the entire world is built around and about the world created by Theodore Geisel.

*The Skrumps: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Skrumps
Originally a toy/mini book like by Jon Chandler, JHC turned it into an online webisode series. Most recently Archaia Studios published a Skrumps story in comic form within the Fraggle Rock comic book.

 

[RedPiggy]

Well, wouldn't digital puppets count at the very least as much as Waldo would? And I don't consider Dinosaurs "Muppets". They are Creatures, just as any "realistic" character is a Creature. They just had some Muppet cameos.

 

[Drtooth]

*Sid The Science Kid: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Sid_the_Science_Kid
If this show had come out before the Disney buyout, there may have been more of a reason to lump this in with Muppets. However, while its the most visible post buyout project for the JHC; one has to wonder if a purely digital form can be considered "Muppet"esque

I really don't know. Let's just not consider the fact that Muppet may be a term that Disney took, taking it away from Henson, where Fraggles are considered Muppets. They have a distinct Muppet look to them, and they are digitally puppeteered the same way remote physical puppets that are considered Muppets.

But what I wanna know, what about non-puppeteered projects based on the Muppets (animation, comics, illustraition)? Is Skeeter really a Muppet if the only time she was physical was for a series of photographed kids books? What about Abby's Flying Fairy School? Abby's a Muppet, sure... but are Blogg and Gonnigan considered, even though they are animated? And what about various original characters from the Muppet comics who are specifically done in Muppet style?

 

[beaker]

I really don't know. Let's just not consider the fact that Muppet may be a term that Disney took, taking it away from Henson, where Fraggles are considered Muppets. They have a distinct Muppet look to them, and they are digitally puppeteered the same way remote physical puppets that are considered Muppets.

But what I wanna know, what about non-puppeteered projects based on the Muppets (animation, comics, illustraition)? Is Skeeter really a Muppet if the only time she was physical was for a series of photographed kids books? What about Abby's Flying Fairy School? Abby's a Muppet, sure... but are Blogg and Gonnigan considered, even though they are animated? And what about various original characters from the Muppet comics who are specifically done in Muppet style?

Oh I absolutely consider any character related to Sesame worlds a Muppet. As well, anything out of Jim Henson's doodle book or illustrations(including City Critters) Scary Scary Monsters, while
only existing as a short series of kids books from the late 1990's are definitely Muppets(Splurge of course was on TMS and Sesame Street) I fancy the "Land of Ovadare" to be not far from Fraggle Rock: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Scary_Scary_Monsters

Skeeter I would say has risen to a point where we could see her existing as herself outside of the universe of Muppet Babies canon. We've seen Skeeter grown up in other venues, and the recent comic series sealed the deal.

You're right, it's no matter the medium(as mentioned Waldo is a digital) that wouldn't necessarily disqualify it as being Muppety.

I do think it's funny that legally, the Fraggles have been "de-Muppetized", as have any former Muppet character now used for Henson Alternative; yet Sesame characters retain the Muppet trademark name. (And what in the heck happened to Bear in the Big Blue House?)

So here's a few more to ponder:

Between the Lions: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Between_The_Lions
The Between the Lions characters, who share PBS with our beloved Sesame gang, seem almost inseperable from Sesame characters in all the commercials. Quite a number of times Sesame characters have guest starred on Between the Lions, as well as have appeared with them in other specials. Not only that but so many Jim Henson Company/Sesame Workshop people work or have worked on the series. The characters on the show look extremely Sesame Workshop-esque

Well, wouldn't digital puppets count at the very least as much as Waldo would? And I don't consider Dinosaurs "Muppets". They are Creatures, just as any "realistic" character is a Creature. They just had some Muppet cameos.

True, but unlike Brats of the Lost Nebula, Farscape, Storyteller, Dark Crystal, Labyrinth and so forth Dinosaurs was a comedy. I just think its interesting Muppet Central has it listed under Muppet worlds and not fantasy( http://www.muppetcentral.com/collectibles/index.shtml )
while Muppet Wiki considers it as part of the creature shop/fantasy realm

 

[SeanC]

I'd consider Sir Didymus a Muppet in an otherwise 'Creature' movie. I know that appearance isn't really a criteria, but that's just how I think of him.

 

[Drtooth]

Between the Lions: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Between_The_Lions
The Between the Lions characters, who share PBS with our beloved Sesame gang, seem almost inseperable from Sesame characters in all the commercials. Quite a number of times Sesame characters have guest starred on Between the Lions, as well as have appeared with them in other specials. Not only that but so many Jim Henson Company/Sesame Workshop people work or have worked on the series. The characters on the show look extremely Sesame Workshop-esque

That's a real mess, if you think about it. Does any puppet performed by a Muppet/Henson employees past or present considered a Muppet if it's very similar to the Muppets? Michael Frith worked on the show's design I think... but they do not consider themselves Muppets at all. Yoda isn't a Muppet dispite being played by Frank Oz... the characters Kevin Clash performed on Great Space Coaster aren't considered either, even though they have the same Muppet Style.

 

[minor muppetz]

With the exception of Bad Andy, I don't consider any of those to be Muppets.

 

[dwayne1115]

yall are forgeting the Teenage Muntant Niija Turtles!

 

[dwmckim]

Not forgetting TNMT - just would definately put them in Creature and not Muppet category.

What makes the question sticky is that there can be a difference between (a) what Henson Co has considered a Muppet or not (b) what is NOW called a Muppet and what legally doesn't carry the name post Disney sale and (c) what fans think of as Muppets despite a or b. Kind of like how people say they're drinking a Coke even if it's a soft drink by another company or using a Kleenex even if it's a different brand of tissue.

But first and foremost, there MUST be a genesis within Henson (or now SW and Muppet Studios) to be considered a Muppet - if it has a similar design and style (ie Great Space Coaster or Between the Lions) i can at best only consider them Muppet-like or Muppet inspired. But no Henson attachment, no Muppet designation.

It's not a perfect system and this is more just of how i *personally* think of the characters even just subconsciously as opposed to any kind of official guide (and of course there are exceptions in a lot of the Muppet families because not every single individual character has it like Cookie or Rowlf) but generally speaking if the family of characters has the traditional mouth with the heart shape tongue and often accompanying "tonsils", in my mind that places them firmly in the Muppet category.

 

[BobThePizzaBoy]

Bonnie Erickson built the Phillies Phanatic? Hmmm... I never knew that. I always thought that thing you'd pretty Muppet-like. Technically not a Muppet though, Bonnie Erickson was just doing freelance work it seems.