MC Community: Where is it going?

[theprawncracker]

I'm gonna' play a bit of a devil's advocate here and try and keep my post short.

THIS is why I love this forum! One of my favorite members here and one of my best friends on here can come in and disagree with me respectfully and even make me rethink my stand point.

MC is different every year, there's no real "the way it used to be" because it's always changing, always getting new members. Honestly I'd say it's a better place today. We have great new additions that aren't exactly MC but definitely co-exist with MC like The Muppet News Flash and The Muppet Cast.

Completely agree with you on all accounts Dave! What an awesome way to put it. Things HAVE only gotten better in recent times, we now have over 10,000 members! ! How awesome is THAT?

And I'm not really trying to get things back to "the way it used to be," quite frankly I wasn't too fond of my posts back then anyway. I'm just trying to spark a little administrative action to keep the forum running smoothly.

There always has been and always will be drama and post-padders and people who annoy the crap out of us, but it's the internet; they'll never go away and honestly, if they bother you that much, ignore them.

I totally agree with you there too. We've always had to tolerate "post-padders" (I REALLy like that term for them). And like you said, they annoy the crap out of us. I don't really think there's any harm saying that we dislike people for posting like that... we're all sensible here, and maybe those "post-padders" don't know they're doing it and will pick up on their accidents through this thread.

Finally, I personally am thrilled there's disagreement amongst fans. I've always supported healthy debate and it's refreshing to see people defend or offend current projects. Arguments here are generally soft, we just tend to get over passionate as fans, but once again, I'm happy about that. All of you know how special you are to me, some of you even know very personal secrets about me, but I have to be honest, and please don't get upset here, but I think threads like this may contribute to the "downer feeling" you may be feeling. "Rallying the troops" and sharing the love is one thing and greatly admired and appreciated, but I think we can all grow together a bit better in other ways then telling us and the mods what's wrong instead of what's great and fun.

I love a good, clean, debate! Especially here on MC, since we're all so very knowledgable about the things we're debating.

I really wasn't trying to contribute to the downer feelings or point out what's wrong with the forum... I just wanted to address a few annoying points and try to be recognized by the administration since I had seldom been done so before... ya know?

And I think all of the people who've posted in here have highlighted everything they find great and fun here at MC--Muffining, friendship, fandom, being a community... it's all outlined, we just have a few minor grievances we'd like to point out.

Ya know I've got nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for you, Dave! I'm glad we can have this discussion as friends! I love this place, and I'll probably never leave... so get used to me.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention how great that post of yours was, Dave. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[frogboy4]

This is kind of a safer area for Muppet Central products that don't actually say Muppet on them or have an "official" character even though this is essentially Java...er...JaMa. I just threw it together bit it turned out kinda cute. Still a longshot, but hey. I tried!

I will let you know that there are always improvements going on at Muppet Central (some big, some little) that people don't always notice. The very fact that Muppet Central Forums freely allows this thread to thrive is a testament to the site. That's why I kind of feel it should be re-titled to "Muppet Central Community: Where Is It Going?"

 

[Vic Romano]

Ry, I neglected to mention how much of the heart and soul you are of this site, and your extreme passion for it is testament to that. You're one of those people I trust and adore and I apologize for not mentioning that. I'm glad even as friends it's okay to disagree and I think that would make Jim proud.

 

[Redsonga]

I totally agree with you there too. We've always had to tolerate "post-padders" (I REALLy like that term for them). And like you said, they annoy the crap out of us. I don't really think there's any harm saying that we dislike people for posting like that... we're all sensible here, and maybe those "post-padders" don't know they're doing it and will pick up on their accidents through this thread.

I really think post-padding is in the eye of the beholder...I mean, I come from forums where random off topic things with no point (not the same as connecting a topic to another in the form of illustrating a point IMHO) are seen as spam and warned against...So to me, random things like muppet buses are true spam posts that annoy me...I don't think that makes me any less of a muppet fan or MC member though . I mean, it takes all types to hold the muppets together, doesn't it? And I am much more silly in real life than in online typing form if that helps any . Just look at my youtube...

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I don’t see the community going downhill. I just think the membership needs to better police themselves so moderation doesn’t have to, at which point complaints arise when we DO have to police threads (which IS our jobs). As far as arguing goes--I don’t get it. I still don’t understand why folks who meet up on a forum to celebrate a peace-wisher’s work lead folks into arguments and negativity! When someone can explain it to me in a way that can be understood it would be appreciated. As far as the negativity on the website popping up, I think it was made quite clear that folks didn’t want us moderating to save that face from the view of the membership and therefore I have backed off trying to clean things up.

Moderation isn’t simple. We moderators aren’t best friends who chat frequently on the telephone and discuss the website. My life isn’t as simple as that. Come to think of it, I’ve never spoken to Phil outside of MuppetFest, and I’ve never spoken to any other moderator (well, Annika at MuppetFest). Seldom do we even e-mail because this isn’t our lives. Forums are way down the list of what the rest of us have going on, I’m sure. Also, I am sure none of the moderators make MC their daily routine. I try to come here for fun, but I find myself having to moderate more than participate. That’s a bit unfair, gang.

Anyway, Frogboy was once a moderator (and his contributions to the website have been unsurpassable, the graphics made this site look fantastic!), but the strains of it had him decide to back away from it--and I’m beginning to decide that it’s near time for me to back away as well--I don’t see anything positive hardly anymore, just negative post and complaint after another, repeated reported posts…ugh. Anyway, I would welcome him back as moderator with open arms in a heart-beat if he wants that position again!

This is a website and forum for FUN--and, per usual, as fall sets in the weirdness (and not the good kind) begins to settle down on the forum. It’s an annual pattern and I’ve come to expect it. Again, I just hope folks begin using their ignore features and try to keep themselves from being negative and participating in any fights online. It is just unattractive to folks who are on the website and new-comers to the MC Family.

I agree with Phil’s decision about the continuation of punctuation. Not so much as a moderator, but as a forum reader. I hate seeing posts that have 7 lines of exclamation points. It’s useless and takes up space (and I’m sure bandwidth and other computer terminology I don’t know).

As far as article writing: Contribute! It can be written and e-mailed to Phil. In my case, I added my own two articles in the forums as a thread: The Mahna-Mahna Phenomena and the article I wrote about Gonzo. So, contributions can also be made via the website’s forum. Why not? Then, there are the “Your thoughts” threads that are opened for products and those only turn into arguments instead of open-minded and non-biased reviews. For example, there were some positive and constructive criticisms of "DC Studios," but, the thread turned into a "The Muppets are dead" discussion. WHY?

The innocent plea to not be censored has been covered in the first paragraph in my post. I personally think, after visiting other forums, that moderation on MC is WAY too lenient. I’m sure if you visit other fansite forums you’ll have to agree.

I think if MC began supporting itself with MC merchandise, it would be the same opinion by many of the folks who make and sell Muppet “replicas” on e-bay; not to mention that you could almost bet Diz, JHC, and SW would be coming right down on the site and probably even take it away. My suggestion is that when you go into the main website, click on the Amazon.com links to go to amazon and that link from the website helps to fund MC. Still, the ideas that Frogboy came up with could get us around all the legalities of that since nothing says Muppet on it and the art looks fantastic!

As a fan first, I have to say that I get disappointed at the membership sometimes because I think there is a tendency to lean more toward negative posts than positive, and I think if the membership did participate more positively we could see MC back on track to the good ol’ days (which was a LONG time ago now). As a moderator, I REALLY wish trying to keep up with the posts on this website was easier and that all we had to have were 2 moderators because there was no need to worry about maintaining the rules of the forum. I would like to come to MC and know that moderation is a more simple task because the membership also wants it to be a fun forum to come to without flame wars.

My other suggestion as far as what moderation has to do here is to read and re-read the rules of the forum:
http://forum.muppetcentral.com/announcement.php?f=2

When everyone signs on to the forum they are bound by these rules by signing on.

Anyway, I’m sitting on midnight and half asleep and probably posted something here I didn’t mean to, probably even contradicting myself. I hope something was helpful and insightful. If not, it was meant to be.

I’m going to bed.

 

[frogboy4]

I don’t see the community going downhill. I just think the membership needs to better police themselves so moderation doesn’t have to...

I agree with all you said (except the idea of my returning to moderation - that's probably how I killed my old computer).

I like my little M guy. I'm sure Phillip could use him for something down the line - if even as content filler for a graphic to be inserted later. He made me smile while makin' him. I'm glad you liked the little fella too. It's the best 15 minutes I spent today!

You are right about the Amazon links. They support this site and forum. Heck, has anyone been to a Delphi forum recently? This place is much crisper, cleaner and better managed. That comes from somewhere and it aint that cheap!

For the Muppet Central forum members who have joined somewhat recently...in the past ten years Muppet Central has added the fantastic Radio section, rebranded the entire site, purchased software in order to move to this nicer forum without the interrupting spam advertisements, archived old forum posts, added and edited many graphics, added Flash interactivity, created a comprehensive collectibles section, begun a Muppet Show episode guides, held contests, held interviews with very cool Muppet folk, included articles, tributes and reviews from forum members as well as staff, moderated this place and kept it up for over a decade!

As in life things have their seasons and so does Muppet Central. It will be on the upswing again - especially with all this new Muppety stuff to talk about!

 

[Redsonga]

I still don’t understand why folks who meet up on a forum to celebrate a peace-wisher’s work lead folks into arguments and negativity! When someone can explain it to me in a way that can be understood it would be appreciated.

For a lot of us, the muppets and SS and FR go back to the very roots of who we are now and things about them we hold very dear . When this much life long passion is put into one place, and used as weight behind all sorts of debate too and against things related to them, disagreements can and do happen. It just a part of human nature, and as humans we can't be held to the idea that we will always be peaceful no matter what is said...
All and all, this forum, even at its most heated, is nowhere near as bad as any of the other forums I belong to get, even without all the fighting topics and ranting posts deleted . At least everyone here never goes down to the level of barely readable swearing laced flames

 

[MartyMuppets]

Thank you Kevin. You made a good point about all of us members responsibility to do our own part about keeping things running smoothly and happily.
Whether we have 2 mods or 20 mods or 200 mods or 20000 or more we must not rely on them alone to look after the forum for us. If we would all only try to be co-operative and more understanding with each other then many such unpleasant incidents could be quickly smoothed over or perhaps avoided altogether.

And the mods we do have will have more time to chat with us about the Muppets and other fun topics. Come on everybody. Let's all make a sincere effort.

 

[Beauregard]

Oh wow, Jamie! That MC guy is SO cute! I am suddenly desperate for one of those hats!

 

[Yva Minstrel]

I do know how hard moderating is, and that was what I was trying to convey in my last posting. I am an administrator of a fan site and have been working at it for the last four years. Our forum is not as vast as this one, but it doesn't matter, I've literally put in hours of work on the forum and I have done everything ranging from enforcing the rules to getting into off forum battles of wits with members who did not want to follow said rules. I've been there and done that.

There have been so many postings since last night when I turned the computer off and went to bed, but here's hoping that I can touch on some of what was said. The rules bear not repeating, as Fozzie Bear already covered that and I spoke my fill about it yesterday.

The religion issue. There is a thread in one of the off topic forums about church going people, which is fine. I have lurked and made one or two postings in that thread as I am a member of a new thought faith. Just giving a shout out about my faith and leaving was all I really felt comfortable doing, though.

However, the issue for me is not about a thread where people can discuss their faith, as that's what it was designed for. When faith and religion suddenly drift into the other threads that are not even 'spiritually oriented' when they were started, then I can see where other people have issues with them. I do as well.

Someone commented that they had not seen anything political here. I did, but it was meshed in the middle of another thread. In the midst of it, I sent the url to it to one of the moderators because it did make me feel very uncomfortable.

The point is, when a thread is started about one topic and then drifts off into this, then I can understand completely how it does make other people feel very uncomfortable. When a person posts putting down something, they never really know if they are attacking or hitting another forum member.

For example, I love Disney animated movies, and these have been bashed here. I love those cheesy Barbie films and I've seen those bashed here. Those things are no big deal, but when it gets into a person's faith, orientation, or political views, then they could be construed as an attack on another person.

Again, I don't want to focus on the negative, as I am here to have fun, but sometimes, even in the most fun groups, someone has to say something so that they can feel better about said situation. I am glad that people are so open and receptive to what I had to say. But, if I don't say anything, then I would have continued to stew about it, and not let it out. Letting it out is perhaps the most positive thing I could have done.