When Kermit Met Piggy...

[Speed Tracer]

I imagine that we've had a thread about this before, but perhaps not. I'm sure someone will tell me.

Recently I've been thinking about how The Muppet Movie and The Great Muppet Caper both have different origins for Kermit and Piggy's relationship. I've gotten a headache from pondering this a bit too much, but I'm okay with that.

The headache comes from the fact that I very much prefer when they meet in The Great Muppet Caper as opposed to The Muppet Movie. My reason for this is because it's much further developed in the former than in the latter - their relationship is given room to grow, and there are also many great moments between the two that begin to form the stepping stones of their romance, whereas with The Muppet Movie, it's like, boom, they're in love. I mean, not exactly, but still.

Anyway, when telling this to my dad, he told me that while I make a good point, I also have to remember that The Great Muppet Movie is technically a movie within a movie, and thus Kermit and Piggy didn't really meet in The Great Muppet Caper, and further thus that you can't consider The Great Muppet Caper to be an accurate origin story for the two. This is where my head started to hurt. I said that he was right but that I still stand by my theory. He told me I was wrong, and then I pretended to hear somebody stealing his car. He said he didn't hear anything and I called him a liar and ran off.

Does any of this make any sense at all?

Whatever.

I guess what this thread is really all about is whether or not you prefer Kermit and Piggy's meeting for the first time better in The Muppet Movie or The Great Muppet Caper.

 

[BeakerSqueedom]

I've been having headaches of that too. However, if you see in certain magazines they always refer to them as a couple. Like I could show you some of them if you'd like.

 

[Mistersuperstar]

Kermit has been quoted as saying: "Piggy and I have a very professional relationship. I'm professional and she thinks we have a relationship."

Also, at the beginning of The Muppet Movie, Robin asks his uncle Kermit: "Is this how the Muppets really got started?" to which Kermit replies "Well, it's sort of approximately how it happened."

I think The Muppet Movie can be seen as the story behind how the Muppets supposedly met and became the TV and movie stars they are now. The Great Muppet Caper sees the Muppet gang playing roles rather than themselves. Fozzie and Kermit are not really crack investigative reporters, nor is Gonzo their photographer.

Also, don't forget, if you take The Muppets Take Manhattan in to consideration, all the Muppet gang went to college and graduated together! Yet another back story to how they all met...

Now my head hurts too.

 

[Beauregard]

It's complicated. I know there are people at the forum who are experts at piecing together the various histories...in order to form one sweeping story. I'm not great at that, but I do have a few theories on how the relationship develops through the three original movies.

The Muppet Movie, as we know, was sort of approximately how it happened. At some point, Kermit was going to Hollywood and picked up a whole gang of friends (bears and chickens and things) who believed in his dream. One of those was Miss Piggy, and I believe they fell in love...much more slowly than is shown in TMM. Instead, they came to Hollywood, met Lord Lew Grade, and began The Muppet Show. There, Miss Piggy had a huge crush on Kermit, who was reluctant to return the favor...although he, obviously, had feelings for her also.

By the time they made The Muppet Movie, Kermit was openly expressing his love for Piggy (see the Camera Tests from TMM, offscreen chemistry). And so when they met, within the movie, they seemed to be deeply in love from the start, because that was where they were at in real life.

Again, in the Great Muppet Caper, Kermit was beginning to truly realize how very much in love he was with Miss Piggy. The movie, with a different story-line, parallels the growth of their relationship throughout the Muppet Show era. Notice how amazing they are together when they argue by the duck-pond.

And then...MTM! The Muppet Take Manhattan. It's an invented storyline, but again, it's based on some of their previous experience. Don't think they walked into Hollywood and became stars right away...I'd imagine they had some of that "Don't Take No For An Answer" going on from the start. And the movie also was a build-up to an onscreen capturisation of the moment everyone had been waiting for...the Wedding of the Year. They had to work it into a movie, as it happened within the real-world of Miss Piggy and Kermit the Frog.

Then there is a big break between the movies...filled in with a special, the Muppet's 30 Years. At this celebration, Piggy and Kermit are very comfortable with their relationship, and there is no more denial on Kermit's part.

Same goes for MCC, and MTI.

And then we come to the Muppet's Tonight era, and Muppet's From Space when there is a sudden coldness between the frog and the pig...We're never told why.

Moving on to VMC, their love seems to be growing again, bringing them back together as Kermit realizes how much he (and Piggy) would be missing if they were not together. When Kermit sees the Alternate Universe Piggy in that movie...there's an eye-glint, and they are amazingly in love there.

So...*ahem*...to answer your question, I think their meeting was similar to TMM, but only approximately.

 

[Mistersuperstar]

I am not convinced that there is any major love for Piggy on Kermit's side. I think there is a lot of admiration but I think the "true love" is unrequited.

He does show concern or affection towards her on several occasions, in A Muppet Family Christmas he is clearly concerned for Piggy's safety when she is missing in the blizzard. In The Muppet Movie he is obviously upset when Piggy walks out on him.

I'm not sure Kermit has never really made any kind of romantic move on the pig tho.

 

[Beauregard]

I think as far as Jim was concerned, Kermit did love Piggy, but he was shy. Watch this, Jim and Frank improvising (and laughing! Listen carefully!) on camera while filming the Muppet Movie.

 

[Mistersuperstar]

That's on the US pre-Disney The Muppet Movie DVD. A great extra feature. Pity they didn't include it on the anniversary Disney release.
It sounds a little like Kermit is making fun at Piggy. "I don't think I've ever seen a pig that looked quite like that before... you got that long hair and your eyes are quite outstanding" Maybe it is even Jim making a little inside joke at the way Piggy looks. Either way, gotta love Jim and Frank's improv!

 

[Beauregard]

Hmm...I guess you could say it that way...Except that would make Kermit seem quite cruel, to play with her emotions that way...I can't quite imagine that Kermit would be that cruel?

 

[Mistersuperstar]

Seeing as that clip is a test shoot and not really an official part of the Kermit & Piggy story, we probably shouldn't worry about it too much. I have heard that the Muppet performers could be quite vulgar with the characters behind the scenes too. Maybe we could see it as how Kermit & Piggy really are behind the scenes and the whole Kermit & Piggy romance is just part of their act. Just as Fozzie isn't really a failed comedian, he might be a stock broker.

 

[Beauregard]

Oh my gosh....Fozzie as a stock broker...that's the funniest image I've seen all day. *giggles*