The Muppets Episode 2 - Hostile Makeover

What did you think of "The Muppets" episode "Hostile Makeover"?

  • Absolutely positively! This episode was great!

  • Bork bork! This episode was good.

  • Mee mee. This episode was so-so.

  • You're all weirdos! This episode was disappointing.


Results are only viewable after voting.

MuppetsRule

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
1,845
Reaction score
1,758
Not to beat the point over the head, but they look like the Muppets, but they aren't really the Muppets.
This one sentence pretty much sums up how I feel about the new show. Trying to "humanize" the Muppets is just totally the wrong way to go. Why have the Muppets if they are just going to play some character basically? You could have hired any actor/actress and assign them the individual Muppet's personality. You could hire Neil Patrick Harris as the late night shows producer instead of Kermit and given him the same lines and personality as Kermit for instance. I just don't get why they are using the Muppets if they aren't gong to be the Muppets. And now there is word that there aren't going to be talking vegetables or Gonzo's chickens because they don't fit with the whole humanization thing? What do you think makes the Muppets the Muppets? It's the singing chickens, the zany penguins, the fridge full of talking vegetables, the Lobster Banditos, etc...

But what do I know? I'm just one of the old irrational, uneducated haters.
 

Drtooth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
31,718
Reaction score
6,707
I'm sorry, but the logic is still the same "WAAAH! This isn't a complete copy of a show Jim Henson himself ended after 5 seasons because it would have got stale."

I'd much rather them being humanized than have them flop around going through the motions and rehashing their old jokes in a photocopy of a photocopy Flanderized sort of way. Seriously, if they made a new Muppet Show that's exactly like the old one, we'd be complaining that it wasn't as good as when they did it in the first place anyway. Such is the Geewunner mindset. They'll out and out refuse to like anything new and find reasons to pick it apart so no one else can enjoy it.

Not saying anyone has to like the show, but really? Anything wrong with this show is the same thing wrong with every project since MCC.
 

CensoredAlso

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Messages
13,708
Reaction score
2,291
Trying to "humanize" the Muppets is just totally the wrong way to go.
You're right. Remember in the 60 Minutes episode when Richard Hunt said the Muppets' jokes wouldn't work with human beings? Well the reverse is also true. The jokes that work with humans don't necessarily work with the Muppets. That doesn't mean the Muppets aren't adult or sophisticated. It just means they're different. And that needs to be recognized.
 

dwayne1115

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
7,719
Reaction score
3,317
So, they can't really have chickens and talking vegetables.

OH NO?
I could give a Frog's fart about chickens,talking vegtables, minor or background characters, or even new random whatnots, or newer characters from the last two movies ever showing up on the show! I just want to see the original Muppets to be a little more in there orignal character
 

Ruahnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
1,913
Reaction score
1,149
I completely disagree. That is all. :grouchy:
I have to say-again--that I am sad to find you uncivil in your expression of your opinion. Being rude rarely convinces anyone.

Denying reality rarely convinces, either. Kermit is different. He is mean. He is shallow. He is dismissive of old friends and calculatingly manipulative to others.
Piggy, hailed worldwide as a feminist icon, is simply psychotic and dumb, divorced from reality and estranged from her frog. Fozzie has become morally untethered and grovels in a way that is unappealing. (Fozzie used to make us root for him when he bombed--now I just want to avoid eye contact.)
And Scooter, who had grown and changed from an annoying teenage wannabe with people skills into a dependable and trusted assistant, capable of managing impossible schedules and impossible stars&-well, he's now the groups enabler-in-chief. He props up Kermit and supports his bad decisions, such as overeating and getting his portly self involved with a younger, more servile pig. He has gone from being the band's manager to being their "supplier." I want to cry when I think about it.
Gonzo isn't even really there.

The problem isn't that the old (performing) guard is gone. The problem is that the new people and the old people and whoever the heck the "people" are who are writing for this show don't know who the muppets are. They don't understand what makes them tick (see my post above about how Kermit's worst fear about Fozzie become the bear's defining characteristic).
In The Muppets, Kermit acknowledges that he is lost without Piggy, and the gang is lost without him. The crowds stood up and cheered. On the backs of that success, a sequel was born. The second movie, in which none of the other muppets seem to notice that Kermit has been replaced by a disaffected criminal, would NEVER have launched another movie.
Believe me--we NOTICED Kermit was missing. We see that he IS missing.
The irony here is nothing short of staggering. Constantine didn't do as much to damage to muppets as Kermit has managed to do in two shows. And sadly, while I find this version of Kermit repellant, I know it isn't really Kermit's fault.
His fate is--literally--in the hands of others, and they have let him down and left him hanging.
Irony. And sadness.
For me, who loves them wholeheartedly, the question isn't hard to answer: do I wish they hadn't come back to television?
Yes. Absolutely.
The main characters, as portrayed in the first few episodes, are unsalvagable unless they fix the major flaws in the writing: ignorance and meanness.
Even Gonzo could do better than this.
 

Ruahnna

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
1,913
Reaction score
1,149
I'm sorry, but the logic is still the same "WAAAH! This isn't a complete copy of a show Jim Henson himself ended after 5 seasons because it would have got stale."

I'd much rather them being humanized than have them flop around going through the motions and rehashing their old jokes in a photocopy of a photocopy Flanderized sort of way. Seriously, if they made a new Muppet Show that's exactly like the old one, we'd be complaining that it wasn't as good as when they did it in the first place anyway. Such is the Geewunner mindset. They'll out and out refuse to like anything new and find reasons to pick it apart so no one else can enjoy it.

Not saying anyone has to like the show, but really? Anything wrong with this show is the same thing wrong with every project since MCC.
You act as though it is impossible to find the old spirit of the muppets portrayed in new and appealing ways that would attract audiences. Just because the current projects haven't managed to do it doesn't mean it can't be done. (Who the heck do they think they are--Jerry Abrams, the demigod who set out to "fix"
Star Trek and ended up borrowing from the old version so shamelessly that it was an embarrassment.)

There are writers who could do a better job. Heck, there are people all throughout the fandom who could write more credibly and more knowledgeably about the characters, not neglecting any of their rich history of relationships. And here's something I loathe to admit: the writers "the muppets" currently have could do it too--if they could be bothered.

I'm not a hater. I'm not ineducated. (In fact, I seem to know the characters better than the current writer's do.). I stood ready to brace something new, but didn't like the way it scratched and bit me.

I don't dislike the new show because it's not the old show. I dislike it because it not funny, it's disrespectful, it's out of character and it's mean.
 

MuppetsRule

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
1,845
Reaction score
1,758
You act as though it is impossible to find the old spirit of the muppets portrayed in new and appealing ways that would attract audiences. Just because the current projects haven't managed to do it doesn't mean it can't be done. (Who the heck do they think they are--Jerry Abrams, the demigod who set out to "fix"
Star Trek and ended up borrowing from the old version so shamelessly that it was an embarrassment.)

There are writers who could do a better job. Heck, there are people all throughout the fandom who could write more credibly and more knowledgeably about the characters, not neglecting any of their rich history of relationships. And here's something I loathe to admit: the writers "the muppets" currently have could do it too--if they could be bothered.

I'm not a hater. I'm not ineducated. (In fact, I seem to know the characters better than the current writer's do.). I stood ready to brace something new, but didn't like the way it scratched and bit me.

I don't dislike the new show because it's not the old show. I dislike it because it not funny, it's disrespectful, it's out of character and it's mean.
Pretty much agree with all of this, although I don't find them repellant. They are, afterall, still the Muppets. I'd like to think that somewhere deep down there still exists all that makes the Muppets good.

Next weeks show should be another nail in the coffin. From the previews the Muppets go out to the bar, sing karaoke, stay out late, and then fail to show up for work the next day. These writers could not be further off than how they are treating them.
 

dwayne1115

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2003
Messages
7,719
Reaction score
3,317
I understand what the both of you are saying. I love the show,but i agree with what your saying. I think you two are great fans, who just want the best forand out of the Muppets. To me I think they are trying to hard to be different,and that makes them look fake.
 
Top