Respectful Politics Thread (Let's Just See)

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some of yall dont realize that in many of the riots, the police are the beginning agitators in peaceful protests and the whole thing escalates
 

MuppetsRule

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some of yall dont realize that in many of the riots, the police are the beginning agitators in peaceful protests and the whole thing escalates
You've made this claim earlier in this thread. Could you please expand as to how so and provide a link?
TIA
 

Old Thunder

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Since FuzzyGobo brought up MLK, here’s his quote on riots:

But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

There is no way I can condone violence. I have too much empathy for the innocent people who might be caught up in the fray and hurt by protesters. Still, the conditions that have existed in this country for years should’ve been a warning sign that something like this was coming. When people are not heard through their words, then this is the ultimate outcome. And with the virus holding everyone down, feelings are being exacerbated. The death of Mr. Floyd is the straw that broke the camel’s back.

I don’t know what the outcome of this will be. Hopefully something negative can result in a positive — change. But it could be that protesters will be beaten back by police and government. We’ll just have to see.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t condone the violence, but at the same stroke I understand where the rioters are coming from and that while this is a morally repugnant choice to me, a lot of the blame lies on the system for being set in such a way that this sort of thing would be the outcome.
 

MuppetsRule

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Since FuzzyGobo brought up MLK, here’s his quote on riots:

But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

There is no way I can condone violence. I have too much empathy for the innocent people who might be caught up in the fray and hurt by protesters. Still, the conditions that have existed in this country for years should’ve been a warning sign that something like this was coming. When people are not heard through their words, then this is the ultimate outcome. And with the virus holding everyone down, feelings are being exacerbated. The death of Mr. Floyd is the straw that broke the camel’s back.

I don’t know what the outcome of this will be. Hopefully something negative can result in a positive — change. But it could be that protesters will be beaten back by police and government. We’ll just have to see.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t condone the violence, but at the same stroke I understand where the rioters are coming from and that while this is a morally repugnant choice to me, a lot of the blame lies on the system for being set in such a way that this sort of thing would be the outcome.
As to your last paragraph. I can see where the protestors are coming from regarding the throwing of therocks, stormingthe police lines, even the vandalizing police squad cars. I don't condone it, but I understand where that pent up frustration is now letting lose. But when you see videos of cars pulling up to Target stores and looters unloading two shopping carts of stolen merchandise, or cell phone stores being looted, I don't understand how that is advancing the cause at all. Many of the stores they are destroying are minority owned businesses in the inner city that serve essential services. They are only going to drive those businesses out of the area. How isthat improving anything?
 

fuzzygobo

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I take no pleasure in the violence either. As far back as I can remember. there were businesses in black neighborhoods that got destroyed, black families trying to sustain a living in their communities, only to be wiped out by rioters. Innocent people getting killed or beaten up. Collateral damage.

This morning there were reports of riots in DC. The Lincoln Memorial being vandalized. How much more blood has to be shed? How many more stores have to go up in smoke?
 

Old Thunder

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As to your last paragraph. I can see where the protestors are coming from regarding the throwing of therocks, stormingthe police lines, even the vandalizing police squad cars. I don't condone it, but I understand where that pent up frustration is now letting lose. But when you see videos of cars pulling up to Target stores and looters unloading two shopping carts of stolen merchandise, or cell phone stores being looted, I don't understand how that is advancing the cause at all. Many of the stores they are destroying are minority owned businesses in the inner city that serve essential services. They are only going to drive those businesses out of the area. How isthat improving anything?
And this is where you and I definitely convene in thought. It’s why a riot is such a conundrum. On the one hand you have angered protesters trying to take a stand, and on the other hand people will use the opportunity to pillage the town.

But it should also be noted that the police in this situation are just as harmful. I’ve seen reports of reporters being arrested despite trying to cooperate with the police, or even attacked with mace, rubber pellets, etc. Innocent bystanders have been attacked too. Ultimately the phrase “takes two to tango” applies quite well to the situation at hand.

But yeah, I very much agree with what you’ve been posting in this thread. I’m pretty happy the two of us align in our opinions here despite coming from two different sides of the aisle.
 

MuppetsRule

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And this is where you and I definitely convene in thought. It’s why a riot is such a conundrum. On the one hand you have angered protesters trying to take a stand, and on the other hand people will use the opportunity to pillage the town.

But it should also be noted that the police in this situation are just as harmful. I’ve seen reports of reporters being arrested despite trying to cooperate with the police, or even attacked with mace, rubber pellets, etc. Innocent bystanders have been attacked too. Ultimately the phrase “takes two to tango” applies quite well to the situation at hand.

But yeah, I very much agree with what you’ve been posting in this thread. I’m pretty happy the two of us align in our opinions here despite coming from two different sides of the aisle.
As to the bolded. Some of these (not all, but some) I attribute to the fog of war. Police are just as human though as the protestors. They experience frustration just as well. I can't imagine standing in a line and being pelted with stones and rocks, being spat upon, being verbally abused and not wanting to lash out. All in all, the police have shown remarkable restraint. Just as the rioters don't represent the majority of the protestors, neither do the bad apples represent the majority of police. I've read many reports of policemen joining in with the protestors. Good cops are just as disgusted (if not more because it directly rreflects upon their profession) than the rest of us with these videos. The problem in both cases is that the minority viewpoint, whether it be the rioters or the corrupt cops, is where the focus falls upon.
 

MuppetsRule

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My fear is that in a week or two, all the riots and protests will die down. Everything will be forgotten until the next incident and the pent up frustration will explode again. We've been down this road before. For all the lip service politicians pay to the issue, nothing ever seems to get done. That's why I hate politics so much. And that is BOTH sides.
 
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