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Respectful Politics Thread (Let's Just See)

D'Snowth

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A lot of people are talking about how because Trump has been allowed to get away with so much obstruction of justice that he has opened the door to allowing future presidents to get away with such, and pretty soon, it won't matter how immoral or unethical a president may be, they'll never be held accountable for their actions.

I don't really see that happening - that much I'll say is a bit hyperbolic . . . let's be honest here: the only reason Trump is allowed to get away with all he's done is simply because he's Donald Trump . . . if it was anybody else, they would be held accountable - especially if they're a Democrat.
 

MWoO

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A lot of people are talking about how because Trump has been allowed to get away with so much obstruction of justice that he has opened the door to allowing future presidents to get away with such, and pretty soon, it won't matter how immoral or unethical a president may be, they'll never be held accountable for their actions.

I don't really see that happening - that much I'll say is a bit hyperbolic . . . let's be honest here: the only reason Trump is allowed to get away with all he's done is simply because he's Donald Trump . . . if it was anybody else, they would be held accountable - especially if they're a Democrat.
There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start.

Do you realize that this is the first time a president has been impeached where no crime has been alleged? Abuse of power is not a crime. The democrats are trying to state that abuse of power falls under "other high crimes". In the past, abuse of power has been included in articles of impeachment to back up a criminal charge. Here, there is no criminal charge.

Contempt of Congress is a crime. Trump is not charged with that though. He is charged with Obstruction of Congress, which isn't a crime. This was done intentionally because the ways Trump refused to help Congress were not illegal. Also, the obstruction pertains to his impeachment inquiry for which he was not charged with a crime.... so... he obstructed a non-criminal investigation.

The democrats failed to secure all witnesses prior to the trial even after stalling. Then they rested their case with no evidence. Now they want the ability to call new witnesses after they rested their case. No.... that's not how trials work. This is not obstruction, it is how the legal system was designed. They had no confidence in actually removing Trump from office so they failed to actually put together a case other than "co.e on, you know he did it".

But none of that matters because "a lot of people are saying" stuff so it must he true. How do you live as an adult without the ability of critical thinking?
 

MuppetsRule

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There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start.

Do you realize that this is the first time a president has been impeached where no crime has been alleged? Abuse of power is not a crime. The democrats are trying to state that abuse of power falls under "other high crimes". In the past, abuse of power has been included in articles of impeachment to back up a criminal charge. Here, there is no criminal charge.

Contempt of Congress is a crime. Trump is not charged with that though. He is charged with Obstruction of Congress, which isn't a crime. This was done intentionally because the ways Trump refused to help Congress were not illegal. Also, the obstruction pertains to his impeachment inquiry for which he was not charged with a crime.... so... he obstructed a non-criminal investigation.

The democrats failed to secure all witnesses prior to the trial even after stalling. Then they rested their case with no evidence. Now they want the ability to call new witnesses after they rested their case. No.... that's not how trials work. This is not obstruction, it is how the legal system was designed. They had no confidence in actually removing Trump from office so they failed to actually put together a case other than "co.e on, you know he did it".

But none of that matters because "a lot of people are saying" stuff so it must he true. How do you live as an adult without the ability of critical thinking?
Speaking of the impeachment trial, Elizabeth Warren asked this question yesterday during the questioning portion:

"At a time when large majorities of Americans have lost faith in government, does the fact that the chief justice is presiding over an impeachment trial in which Republican senators have thus far refused to allow witnesses or evidence contribute to the loss of legitimacy of the chief justice, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution?"​

She knows that the role of the Supreme Court Chief Justice is to preside over the trial. He doesn't get to decide if they allow witnesses or not. It is the Senate's job to make the rules, not the Chief Justice. That is per the Constitution. But she, and the Democrats, can't get it through normal and legal channels so they are willing to impugn a co-equal branch of government by the positing of the question. All this disinformation in order to score political points.

Senator Murkowski said it better than me:

“It has also become clear some of my colleagues intend to further politicize this process, and drag the Supreme Court into the fray, while attacking the Chief Justice. I will not stand for nor support that effort. We have already degraded this institution for partisan political benefit, and I will not enable those who wish to pull down another."​


Senator Murkowski is one of the republicans on the fence that the democrats hoped to turn in their favor. This is a GREAT example of how the election will go. An on the fence republican. Someone who certainly is not all in on Donald Trump. But the absurdity that is Russia, Ukraine, and this waste of time impeachment process has even driven her to distance herself from the democrats. Your undecideds are leaving the party in droves.
 

fuzzygobo

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There are young people protesting for Trump to be impeached, but can’t give any reasons why.

Just like people who were campaigning for Hillary. Her biggest reason for running was to be the first woman president. When asked about her accomplishments as senator, or as Secretary of State, supporters couldn’t come up with anything.

People are more swayed by feelings than actual facts.
 

fuzzygobo

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Trump isn’t getting away with anything much less setting a precedent for future presidents. Democrats like Maxine Waters were calling for his impeachment even before he took office.
The biggest blow to the Democrats’ crusade to impeach him was when the Mueller report turned up empty. For two years, they were so insistent Mueller would dig up the dirt, he’d deliver the goods, he’s their Personal Jesus, and he could not uncover anything. Two years and forty million dollars and nothing to show for it.
All the allegations of Russian collusion didn’t amount to anything. Claiming the Electoral College was rigged didn’t amount to anything. Many might not like his personality, or not deem him fit to be President, but no impeachable offense has been committed.
 

MuppetsRule

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A lot of people are talking about how because Trump has been allowed to get away with so much obstruction of justice that he has opened the door to allowing future presidents to get away with such, and pretty soon, it won't matter how immoral or unethical a president may be, they'll never be held accountable for their actions.

I don't really see that happening - that much I'll say is a bit hyperbolic . . . let's be honest here: the only reason Trump is allowed to get away with all he's done is simply because he's Donald Trump . . . if it was anybody else, they would be held accountable - especially if they're a Democrat.
I don't think that's the takeaway.

That's the takeaway of Schiff and Schumer. That's what they're telling you to take away.

The Senate felt that this wasn't "High crimes and misdemeanors."

I believe there are things they would view as that. I think there are things Presidents can do that are far worse than this. And I think there are things Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, whoever could have done that would be bad enough to unite 67 Senators against them.

The argument was--this wasn't to that level. And the Senate clearly doesn't feel that it is.

Of course in your world, where All-things Republican are Evil and Orange-man Bad only exists, that would be the takeaway.
 

fuzzygobo

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It has not been a good week for Democrats. They could not announce a clear winner in the Iowa caucus. Trump was acquitted of his impeachment trial, and Nancy Pelosi ripping up her copy of Trump’s speech at the State of the Union address.

it also didn’t look good when the Democrats wouldn’t stand up for the 100 year old Tuskegee airman (a black fighter pilot who served in three wars).

if the Democrats want to have any chance of defeating Trump in the fall, they have to have a unified front instead of bickering with each other. Plus get back to serving the people in their districts that elected them into office in the first place.
That’s how Trump got elected in the first place. It wasn’t 63 million Neo-Nazi white supremacists. It was people who felt government was ignoring their needs and concerns. And minorities are slipping away from the Dems. But for the last three years the Dems hate for Trump far outweighed their love for this country. That will not help them.
 
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