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Calling All Writers--Input Wanted

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction' started by Ruahnna, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    What sort of assumptions do you make when writing Muppet Stories? Here are some things I've been pondering a bit:

    Do we believe that The Muppet Show was a theatre production, or was it a television show shot in a theatre? The way we, the viewers--experience it implies that we are seeing both a live theatre production and the backstage stuff. In essense, we get the best of both worlds.

    If that's true, what about Muppets Tonight? This seems more like a television show shot on a typical television show soundstage. Yet our experience of it is not the same as any other television show (you can say that again!) We see the show like a regular variety show, and yet we still get to see what's going on backstage. Any other show where you get to see that every week? Not really.

    (I know this seems basic so far, but stay with me--I have a point, I promise!)

    Okay--what about TMM? Is this "what really happened"? Is this how Kermit, Fozzie, Piggy and the others really met? Or is this a story--with artistic license taken--showing a fictionalized version of the relationships so they (the artists) can let us (the viewers) know them better? Not only that, but once we get to the end of the movie, then we get to watch Kermit and Co. begin to make the movie we've just seen (sort of). In "real time," does The Muppet Show take place before TMS--it would seem so, but maybe, MAYBE, it only chronicles the switch the muppets made from theatre to movie-making, except that they would already know each other, wouldn't they....

    What about TMTM? Are the muppets really graduating from college? After years of a successful (though somewhat weird) theatre or television show (see previous paragraph), would they go back to school? And then on to Broadway? Or is this another ficitonalized version of what really might have sortof happened to the muppets on the way to stardom--a prequel, as it were, to their successful theatre or television show. In some ways, this is a retelling of "how the muppets became who they were" as far as becoming famous on Broadway goes, but it does end sortof abruptly if the story is all about their fame--we don't even get to see the audience reaction (at the end) to their big Broadway show. (Like Piggy, once the wedding is over, we're done.)
    TMTM holds particular fascination for me, because in this one we see Kermit and Piggy--on "stage"--getting married. We all see Kermit's nervousness because the minister is not being played by Gonzo. The assumption, then, is that this is happening in "real" time on a "real" stage. If TMTM is just a movie being filmed (and movies are generally not filmed chronologically), then Kermit wouldn't have really been on the spot, would he? He could have just yelled "Cut!" (or called for Lew Zealand, like he did the last time Piggy tried something like this). Or he could have said yes, hoping to save the film footage, then stormed off after Piggy to demand a response (of whatever sort you'd like to imagine!!)

    Whew! My brain hurts! Complicated, isn't it--and wonderful, the way Jim and the marvelously talented crew he gathered around him made us believe, made us care about the muppets as real folks. Anybody else want to chime in on the other muppet movies? I'll try to come back and tackle this topic again (if you all don't tackle me for bringing it up!)
  2. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Well...mine is long and complicated, but I think they took artistic lisence to make the films, and, basicly, they changed "colledge" to Hollywood, and "The Muppet Show" to Manhaten Melodies. That's the short version.
  3. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    Short and sweet it is!
  4. ReneeLouvier

    ReneeLouvier Well-Known Member

    Wow...*faints then wakes up*....that's....wow...Um, I agree with Beau there. I think...uh...yeah.
  5. Leyla

    Leyla Well-Known Member

    Oh, I spend quite a lot of time thinking about this, so it's nice to know I'm not the only one. I really have no idea about where the Muppet Show or Muppets Tonight stands, but I think I've more of less decided to interpret the movies, including the ones where they play themselves, as fictional or semi-fictional accounts. Sort of like acting in their own "based on a true story" flick.

    I love the layers of reality the Muppets have. It's a sort of metaphysical thing that blurs their ...puppetness for lack of a better word. It makes them feel more real, and more complex to me. Muppets talking about Muppet movies from Muppet points of view. My head is spinning and I hope it never stops. Miss Piggy is a world famous puppet of a world class diva who plays a diva or wannabe diva... well, frankly, they just don't do fun things like that in Hollywood anymore.

    Why wasn't I born early enough to actually enjoy the muppets when they were everywhere, darn it.
  6. Barry Lee

    Barry Lee Well-Known Member

    Should I maybe make a fanfic about the true story of how TMS happened? (in a fictional way) but anyways good question Ruahnna ( I was afraid I would spell your username wrong but I didn't! Yes! :excited: I mean *ahem* yes...)
  7. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    TMS tabloid

  8. Smiles

    Smiles Well-Known Member


    Okay, I try not to think about this, makes my brain hurt too. But the way I see it is you have way more options. Like if you want to write a story that has the muppets meeting with TMM then you can go ahead and do that, or if you want to write withe the meeting as Muppet Babies you can go ahead and do that too.

    And my opinion is ever changing on the Kermit/Piggy marriage thing.

    Options, perfect for fickle people like myself.
  9. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    And thank goodness for a little variety, huh? Sometimes someone else will bring out an aspect of a character that I hadn't really noticed before. Once I was looking for it, I could see what they saw and go, "Oh, yeah, right."

    The other thing I like is not feeling tied into any one particular option, so I can feel free to enjoy everybody's take on the muppets--even if it's different from my own. (Although I have a secret fear that some of the "real" muppet folk--the professional folk--are calling each other on the phone (like they don't have better things to do!) and saying, "Have you seen the boards lately. These fans are whack-jobs with way too much time on their hands." Okay, so maybe I'm just worried that they're saying, "Ruahnna is a whack-job with way too much time on her hands.")
  10. Leyla

    Leyla Well-Known Member

    Options are definately a good thing, and I love fanfic just because it does bring out aspects of the characters that I never imagined. It's like finding all these wonderful traits about people you already know. It's especially good for me because I hardly remember the Muppet show, and I've only recently seen many of the movies so I'm about as caught up with the characters as I can be. It's a lot of fun. (And I worry about that exact same thing, Ruahnna. I'm still a little embarrassed about writing and posting stories. (I haven't fessed up to anyone in my real life about Muppet fanfic!)
  11. CarburetorJane

    CarburetorJane Well-Known Member

    Well, this is how I look at it: The Muppets are just actors. They get interveiwed for the work themselves and how it was to work with Whoopie Goldburg, etc, instead of (usually) Steve, Dave, or Eric, etc now.

    So none of their work is "true" in that since, but everything's just how it is, a movie or TV show, scripted and acted out.

    Except for the "behind the scenes" stuff in Muppets Tonight and The Muppet Show. They just tape the live thing. See? Reality TV!
  12. ReneeLouvier

    ReneeLouvier Well-Known Member

    We never knew it. We've been watching the start of "Reality TV" for years!! *giggling*

    That's a really good way to put it CarburetorJane!
  13. The Count

    The Count Moderator Staff Member

    Ah yes... The old debate about Muppet continuity and realism between all the productions.
    Well, I'd say TogetherAgain's Flippersteps is a good fanfictional story attempting to tie it all in neatly.

    But regarding the movies... There was some realism and some fictionality interwoven between them all. Remember Kermit and Robin's lines when TMM's screening started.
    Robin: "Uncle Kermit, is this how the Muppets really got started?"
    Kermit: "Well... It's sorta kinda that way."
    And I think it's both a theater show and a taped TV show at the same time.

    Sorry if this doesn't answer anything.
  14. The Flying Sheep

    The Flying Sheep Well-Known Member

    My point of view on these various questions:

    The Muppet show, I think, was both a Television Program with Cameras backstage (rather like a reality show), AND an actual show put on for a paying audience who only saw the stage.

    TMM was a fictionalized account of how the Muppets met. The real story did not have the presence of Scooter, Doc Hopper and his associates, Beaker (who Bunsen Probably hired later as an assistant, remember, he wasn't in season one) and possibly Sweetums.

    Muppets Tonight is a behind-the-scenes look at a (live) TV show.

    TMTM is total fiction, with the exception of the Marriage Moment, which is real and cannon. Because Kermit did not sign any papers they are Not Legally married, despite Piggy's insistance otherwise (they probably remedied that situation about 20 years later). I think we can all agree that TGMC is "just a movie" as well.

    IAVVMC is cannon as well. The Kansas section of the MWOO is not

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