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Your Thoughts: "The Muppets" Theatrical Film

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Phillip, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    I am sorry to have to say it (you have no idea how it pains me), but that is not true. There were times--even "Jim" times when Kermit was/is mean to Piggy, and sometimes to Fozzie. Kermit was not beyond a certain acid wit that could wound and he could be very sarcastic. The first one that comes to mind is his comments about her when she was preparing for the "Swine Lake" ballet. He was also mean to her when filming the "beside the duck pond" scene in The Great Muppet Caper. He accuses her of over-acting and then, when she is crying and repentant, doesn't really try to make her feel better--just tries to steer her back into doing the movie scene. He is unkind to her in the Loretta Swit episode because he is mad at her. He is rude to her in front of the entire cast in IAVMMC, simply because she is trying to tease him with mistleto. I am not saying that he was never provoked. Piggy could be an can be very demanding and over-the-top, but the way in which he responds to her is sometimes quite mean. Also, Kermit can be very morose, and sometimes I am amazed at how hard his friends try to draw him out of his crabby moods when it would be far easier--and perhaps far better--to just let him get over it before attempting to socialize with him.

    Kermit is, well, human (no offense to frog-kind) and has the same weaknesses and faults that any human could have. But he is pivotal to the happiness of a lot of people whether he chose to be or not, and some days he chooses...not. I really admired him for apologizing to Fozzie over the missing money in IAVMMC. That was sortof ground-breaking for him. But although he "makes nice" (and a little whoopee) with Miss Piggy, he does not apologize. Ever.
  2. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    I'm still too tired (haven't slept yet since last night) to do a detailed review, but just to counter my initial post, i do want to clarify that ...although this may later change after the newness wears off, this is actually my FAVORITE Muppet movie to date. And like most things i place higher expectations on things that demonstrate a higher potential for greatness. Which is why some of the shortcomings get a bit irksome to me.

    When it comes down to it, "The Story Is King" and even if i DIDN'T have the benefit of having seen early script, junior novelization, film soundrack, i would have been able to tell there were a lot of missing elements that got left out...just from a pure filmaking perspective, the edit failed the story in several ways and i can't imagine a film teacher not giving the edit a high grade.

    One thing i love about this film is beyond being a Fun Muppet Movie, it tackles some very important and relevant themes about modern society...and again the edit hindered the film's ability to fully explore those themes the way they really deserved to be.

    I honestly feel that ... if the Academy can get past some of the biases they most likely will have about considering a Muppet movie for such honors...that The Muppets could easily be a contender for several major film awards (Oscars, Golden Globes) not for such "usual suspect" categories like Best Songs or such but in categories like Best Film. And the really sloppy editing is what will ultimately make the difference between being a nominee and a winner. With the volume of Obviously Missing Elements excised, the film shoots itself in the foot from standing up and taking its rightful honors. Now granted, most people don't and shouldn't make movies to win awards, but i would think pretty much every film director has their visions and if a film's construction hinders the movie's ability to convey the director's themes and messages, then this important elemnt of filmmaking has failed.

    This was Bobin's first foray into directing a feature film and like i say, while in most regards the film can be measured a Success, Bobin makes it painfully obvious where his beginner's weakness is...the edit/construction. And this is the audience's loss.

    Again, i'm being pretty hard in this aspect of criticism because the potential for greatness was fully present and Bobin/the editing team could have easily created something masterful. And if there were only one or two elements that got lost, that wouldn't be so bad. But instead of a couple, there were dozens of Story Elements that were left out ... not to mention such a wealth of amazing fun "non-essential" bits and scenes and jokes and payoffs shot but not ultimately included. When all is said and done, this should not have been the final edit.

    Hopefully given that we live in the age of dvd's, we'll see a further opportunity to later "correct" some of those missteps down the line with perhaps a different extended or alternate edit.
    Muppetfan44 likes this.
  3. ploobis

    ploobis Well-Known Member

    I LOVED IT!!! :) :mad: :o :concern: ;) :sympathy: :halo: :sing: :D :flirt: :cool: :hungry: :confused: :eek: :attitude: :fishy: :crazy: :cluck:

    I saw the 8pm showing with some friends & family and the place was packed! I'm not kidding, a lot of people wanted to see this movie and at the end they all loved it!

    I loved the little nods to past Muppet movies and TMS. The classic (less known) Muppets had great roles in film, especially Uncle Deadly.

    I have a lot of favorite scenes like when Rowlf wanted to show his cut scene from the montage scene and the Muppets rehearsing the opening theme!

    :sympathy:: "Classic"

    I loved the Muppets doing the songs "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Forget You" it's just one of the things that the Muppets have always been great at, taking big songs and turning them into something hilarious and down right silly! just like Jim would always do. It was also great to hear Jerry Nelson as the announcer.

    Walter is a great new addition to the Muppet gang! I really feel like every one of us Muppet fans relate to him (like in the flash back scenes of him as a kid) and we all have that little guy in us all. Peter Linz really did a great job with Walter and I hope we see more of him in future Muppet productions.

    This movie is definitely worth seeing more than once! this movie is not just for us hard care Muppet fans or casual fans but for everybody as well!
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well yeah Jim's Kermit could be a bit stoic at times and didn't appreciate it when Piggy got all mushy, lol. I like that because it's frankly very realistic, lol.
  5. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    I think this was my fave gag in the movie!
    ploobis likes this.
  6. 12Medbe

    12Medbe Active Member

    hahaha! I loved it! If the movie were to feature a "Have you tried Harry Krishna" joke, I think I would've just died of Muppety goodness.
    newsmanfan likes this.
  7. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    There was a LOT of out of time trancedent moments. Good word their.

    Yeah you forget you're watching felt, foam, fur, etc. Kermit...wow. That scene in Paris at night, VERY adult(adult=mature, not sex wise) Kermit has so many poignant "real" moments...to me it is Oscar worthy.

    I was so touched by that opening...and that Rainbow connection scene

    But I was laughing so hard at the Moopets "rainbow connection"...especially since I was just in Reno at the spot that was suppose to be filmed.

    I think all that matters is once you sit down in a packed theater, and then experience it. Even for Bobbins, Segel and everyone intimately involved with every detail, it all boils down to that 'reveal' when you experience it like everyone else.

    The ending indeed feels tacked on(the dance number), but the scene of Kermit giving his final speech and marching up the aisle was perfect I felt.

    I just am curious what was cut is all, as some of the editing/pacing felt a bit off at times, and at other times perfect
  8. MrBloogarFoobly

    MrBloogarFoobly Well-Known Member

    Just got back from seeing The Muppets. My thoughts are a little jumbled at the moment, but I will attempt to write as coherently as possible.

    THE GOOD...

    -For the first time in quite a while, the Muppets have depth, and are given some pretty emotional stuff to work with. Kermit and Piggy's relationship was superb - they really were like living, breathing creatures, and their relationship was flawed, and I loved it. Quite a few of the characters are sketched out in three dimensions, which we haven't seen since MTM. Like many people mentioned, Kermit was so real.

    -The little character moments. Fozzie and Kermit in the hammock... Piggy and Kermit's discussion in Paris... Gonzo finally returning to true, weirdo form... Also, Uncle Deadly's finest hour!

    -Respect for the originals. Seeing that picture of Kermit and Jim Henson together in Kermit's office made me tear up; hearing Jerry Nelson's voice over, hearing Oz's, Hunt's, and Henson's voice in the flashbacks was a brilliant move on the filmmaker's parts.

    -Walter was great.

    -The Music. "Pictures in My Head" was a stand out, as was the new rendition of "Rainbow Connection," which had what seemed like a call back to Henson's funeral, with the growing number of singers as the song progressed.

    -The Humor. For the most part, I think the jokes were handled well. I had a smile on my face for most of the film. In fact, it really hit all the right spots in terms of emotions.

    -The Muppeteers. Great as always.

    -The human actors were all very good in their roles. Special props go to Jack Black and Zach Gafanalakis.(?)


    -Gonzo, Statler, and Waldorf needed more screentime; Rizzo just plain needed screentime. Just my opinion. Strangely enough, I didn't miss Pepe, as much as I love his character.

    -Even though I thought Kermit was brilliantly acted by Whitmire, and even though I understood where Kermit's head is in the film, I really miss the wise-cracking, sarcastic Kermit. Ever since TMCC, Kermit has become a rather serious, introspective character, which isn't all that Kermit is (or was.) When Whitmire is given free reign on talk shows, the sly, witty Kermit comes out. At times during the movie, he just felt too restricted by what he was given to say.

    -Fozzie's voice. I don't know what happened, as Jacobson is usually spot on. But, as Frank Oz said, it's not just the voice; Jacobson captured Fozzie's spirit.

    -Gary & Mary. Neither of them really contribute anything to the story. During their scenes, I found myself wanting to fast forward to the Muppet parts. Fortunately, they stopped being active parts of the film in the second act, and most of the third, but that still begs the question why they're there in the first place.

    -There was something else I can't really explain... I guess you could say that, at times, something felt "off," or uncanny. Maybe it's just the knowledge that it's an almost entirely new generation of Muppeteers, or that the Henson Company was not at all involved.

    THE BAD:

    -The editing. Many of the scenes felt rushed. It was obvious that the editors cut it down quite a bit, and it was pretty jarring to watch at times.

    -Selena Gomez. GTFO. No one cares about you, Selena Gomez, or you, fat kid from whatever show that is. Leave both of them out, keep Whoopie Goldberg and the other real celebrities. I understand that you're trying to bridge the generation gap, but I think Walter does this just fine. We don't need lame fad actors stinking up a perfectly good movie.

    OVERALL, I found myself smiling through the whole film. Sure, I have some complaints, but they did not detract from my enjoyment, the nostalgia, or (on occasion) sadness. I'm definitely going to see it again (if I can afford a ticket, haha) and I am recommending it to everyone I know.

    In terms of how it stacked up to the other films...

    1. The Muppet Movie
    2. Muppets Take Manhattan
    3. The Great Muppet Caper
    4. The Muppet Christmas Carol
    5. The Muppets
    6. Muppet Treasure Island
    7. Muppets From Space
    8. A Very Muppet Christmas
    9. Muppet Wizard of Oz

    (bare in mind, I liked all of the Muppet Movies)

    Edit: One more note:

    -I feel like the film could've ended with The Muppets not getting the theater back. Kermit's speech was beautiful and poignant, and the pay off of the crowd's reception was enough. It proved that The Muppets didn't need the theater to be who they are.

    -The ending montage was badly executed. I wish they had just included all of that in the film, rather than in a 30 second clip.
  9. vettech28

    vettech28 Well-Known Member

    I just saw the movie tonight and I loved all the small references to all of the first three films. I think Walter was a good character and Peter Linz performed him perfectly. I also liked how it was focused completely on the Muppets. The "Me Party" song was a little awkward for my taste, but the other songs were fantastic, especially the new version of "Rainbow Connection" with all the characters. It may not be the best Muppet film ever, but it was a good movie either way.
  10. 12Medbe

    12Medbe Active Member

    *Plays Trumpet* *Gets Tarzan noise*

    Good Ol' Trumpet Gag!
    ploobis likes this.
  11. muppetwriter

    muppetwriter Active Member

    This is my new signature quote! So true!! Haha! :)
    12Medbe and redBoobergurl like this.
  12. MrBloogarFoobly

    MrBloogarFoobly Well-Known Member

    Also, I was concerned by the fact that there were only 20 people in the audience. That said, it was beautiful to hear those people sing along with "Rainbow Connection" and the Muppet Show theme. :)
  13. MrBloogarFoobly

    MrBloogarFoobly Well-Known Member

    One more thing: Would anyone be able to share the original script? I'd like to see how the film changed.
  14. 12Medbe

    12Medbe Active Member

    mmm, I'd like to see it too, it'd be an interesting read.
  15. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    I'm actually seriously considering starting up Muppet Freak again where i finally tackle the series of articles i've wanted to do since the beginning comparing the movies script to scene....starting with The Muppets...debating some personal things/issues surrounding that...but yeah, i really want to explore something along those lines.

    Some odd random Things To Be Mentioned:

    For those who pay attention to things like this, the actual running time of the movie itself (not counting Toy Story, Disney logos) is 1 hr, 41 minutes.

    I'm usually a "credits geek" but with all the stuff happening on screen, i totally ignored the first 1/3 of the credits and once that ended it took me a further couple moments to realize, "Oh yeah, i usually read these don't i?" I did notice that Jim Henson's Creature Shop was credited for all things for doing wardrobe!
    CensoredAlso likes this.
  16. TripleG

    TripleG New Member

    I saw the movie this evening and I thought it was great!

    In a strange way, seeing all my favorite Muppets again with their zany antics, their meta humor, their absurdity, their lighthearted simplicity, & their heartfelt messages was really a breath of fresh air. In a world dominated by CGI Animation, Roughneck Action Movies, & Rated R Comedies, it was refreshing to see something so pure and something that was obviously a labor of love for those making it.
  17. Narpin

    Narpin New Member

    I loved the movie. Great fun. The best Muppet project in years.

    That being said, did anyone find the plot to be quite repetitive of 'It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie'?? Tex Richamn in place of Rachel Bitterman....trying to 'save the theater'...telethon in place of the Muppet Christmas Show....

    And is Brian Henson no longer with the Muppets after the Disney Sale? Oz retired years ago, but I was surprised at Henson's lack of involvement. I guess he was one of those 'anonymous Muppet vets' who complained about the script. I was trying to figure out which Muppet vets had sat this one out, other than Oz. Seems like Henson, Kevin Clash, and Jerry Nelson.
  18. Narpin

    Narpin New Member

    Oh....and I wish that Johnny Fiama had been in it.
  19. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    Kevin didn't so much "sit it out" as his SST schedule (not only as Elmo but the various production hats he wears) interfered.
  20. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    Brain seems to have been trying to get the Henson Puppets to be their own thing aside from the Muppets, i know he has been involved in the puppet improv shows alot

    Kevin is mostly at the Mercy of Elmo (and not in a bad way) he is so involved in sesame street that he probably couldnt make it being attached to the street

    Jerrys been retired for some time now but he did record the voiceover you here during the muppet telethon

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