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Your Thoughts: It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Phillip, Nov 29, 2002.

  1. FroggiePiggie

    FroggiePiggie New Member

    New member with comments

    Okay--I'm a 'newbie' at this but hopefully I get this right. After reading all your comments and all the things everybody noticed..I have a couple of things to say-- 1- I'm SO very very glad I know now that their are other people out there that noticed that same things I did!! While reading your comments I was like no way! muppet freaks like me! lol!! anyway- i loved being able to see a new muppet 'film' finally... it was about time for a new one. And I'll give the show a soild 7 out of 10. You have to consdir the fact that it was a 'made for tv' film. But I'll be defenitly owning it soon I agree that it could have done without a # of things but.. yay I got to see kermit and I'm happy. LOL oh my gosh i sound some what of a freak now but ah well. Thanks for reading
  2. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    For starters, let me say, when I see films I go in with very low standards. This time I had very very very high standards, and they were blown away! This is the absolute best Muppet movie in recent years. This is what MFS should have been!



    I was super impressed by this film! Not only did they use rare characters like Scooter and Janice (who actually talked), but they even used the Bossmen for a short scene! The refference to Doc Hopper's and such were hillarious. The satires of Rudolph's Sam the Snowman and The Movie version of The Grinch were great! And it was nice to see Fozzie Bear having such a pivitol role, instead of being a small part of the film, much like MCC.

    Kevin Clash was listed, biut Clifford wasn't there. (actually, a small picutre of CLifford is visable in the background, but you can only see it for a few seconds). Kevin seemed to play Sam the Eagle, who came off sillier in this special.

    Janice and Scooter were a bit off, but I was glad to have them back!

    The Molin Scrooge parody was right on target!

    I felt that Joan Cussack had fun (too much fun) being a villain, and she was very campy, but not annoyingly so (well, not to an extreem that I'd hate to see it). She wasn't quite Doc Hopper, but she did better than Charles Grodin.

    My big complaint is that at the end finalie they cut off Fozzie's solo for a rediculous plug for the sappy American Dreams show!

    All and all, (using the MC ratings system) I give it 4 out of 5 disembodied Kermit heads
  3. Stryder Wolfe

    Stryder Wolfe New Member

    well, I've seen the movie twice now, and both times I loved it! I admit that parts were a little slow, but overall I thought it was an excellent effort! I was worried about frank oz's absence but it really didn't bother me at all (even sam was okay, and I thought the hari growth/toupee biut was funny). I didn't have a problem with any of the "edgy" bits or think they were any more over the top than other stuff the muppets have done...the ONLY thing that kind of bugged me was at the end when Pepe says (paraphrase) "that's what christmas is all about..helping friends and getting revenge on enemies" now I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think that Christmas should be associated with revenge. Pepe's not too bright so I can understand hi saying that, but I would have liked Kermit or someone to conteract that statement. IT is somewhat mitigated by Whoopi's statement later that Kermit didn't need justice or revenge or anything like that, but it still jarred me. Everything else though, was excellent. AND the canadian broadcast did NOT cut the end :D I got the whole song and all the credits uncut
  4. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    But that of course is a joke. I made a really weird parody of the New Zoo Review (or whatever it's called) in which all the characters keep harassing each other and trying to cause greavous bodily harm (don't want to get into specifics, but it's just PG material!) at the end, someone watching the whole fiasco says, "It just ain't Christmas until guys in cheap animal suits kill each other." (or beat the living crap out of each other.. I forgot) It's mean spirited, but that's the joke.
  5. Encounter77

    Encounter77 New Member

    Re: Re: Henson's name through the mud

    Yea, I see your point, but keeping in mind that, lately the muppet reputation, from the past movies, and shows like Sesame Street. These characters have a reputation as kid friendly.
    I lived in a world where when I was little and even through Jr. High, I didn't know what cage dancing was. I would want me kids to live in that world, that when they are little they don't know what things like that are. So that was disturbing to me, even though it was short, I also agree with the gay stereotype pig, that was somewhat frustrating. And then the second time through watching it I noticed the Pepe scene with Joan Cusak, That was quite disturbing, I would not want my kids to see that.
    Could the movie have been just as good without those things? I'm not sure. (Sam the eagle didn't really bother me in the club scene. His voice was a little off everywhere else... but it's understandable.)

    Don't get me wrong overall I liked the movie, but I feel it ruined the reputation of the muppets for being good clean fun for kids. Not saying I've given up on them... cause I haven't... but I'm beginning to wonder whats to come of the muppets and wether my kids will be watching them or not.

    And if this comes out on DVD, I would love to own it... becuase I love the message that DREAMS are IMPORTANT. I LOVE THAT ABOUT THE MUPPET MOVIES!

    And I loved the song, Everyone Matters.

    Love ya'll thru Christ,
  6. LOL! I know, it's sad, but I actually also found it rully funny...*snicker*

    I'm sorry Fozzie, you know I love ya, *maaan!*
  7. jetjaguar15

    jetjaguar15 New Member

    Put simply - The movie lacked the timelessness that so much of the previous Muppet material has always had for me. Just like the Hulk Hogan thing in Muppets From Space badly dates that movie, the references to Moulan Rouge and other modern pop culture references made the movie feel dated. By dated I mean that if I'm watching this 10 years from now, I might not get some of the references and/or jokes. Worst of all was the Croc hunter bit... that had me cringing. Poor. Just plain poor.

    Also, it dragged badly in the first half. I really enjoyed the "It's A Wonderful Life" parody part, but the movie would have been far better had it been a straight muppet version of that film rather than what we got.
  8. towels

    towels New Member

    I can not watch the end without screaming at NBC for cutting off Fozzie...
    Has anybody here actually called NBC to get info on DVD possibilities?
    My random thoughts (trying not to repeat)
    I thought it was well done, but I still don't care for David Arquette...maybe I'm one of the ones he was talking about that don't find him funny.
    The Doc Hopper bit was great, even down to the special of the day...
    I didn't really get either choreographer (the weird French guy or the pig) but maybe those are references I don't have the cultural experience to enjoy. I'd have prefered a more established character over Howard.
    The alternate reality was nice...perhaps they should have added a bit about Pepe selling seafood (he's such a sell-out :) )
    Did anybody catch that it was JIM's evergreen painting?
    Scooter's voice bothered me more than anyone else's. I thought it was wonderful how Eric could hit Piggy's range...from the sweet singing and cooing at Kermit, to the gravelly enraged voice.
    I found the Mayhem much too quiet.
    I noticed the continuity was bad on Rizzo's nose. Some theater shots had it red, and others it was back to normal. Then at the end it was red again. (Yes, I know the mixed up plotline didn't help, but if I remember right, it was normal looking backstage after the Moulin number)
    Were there any insiders up in heaven? The scruffy guy near William Macy looked like he could have been a puppeteer...
    Does that Kermit and kids statue really exist somewhere? It seems like it should...
    My (11 year old) son laughed and laughed at the spit in the eye. Then he laughed and laughed at the look on my face. *shrug* He also asked for an explanation of what Innuendo was so there you go...
    Joan Cusak seemed a very odd, funny villian. "Don't let it affect your holiday." She had a nice approach to being mean. Very quirky spin of her character from Addam's Family Values.

    (whew...lots to say after a month and a half)
  9. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Member

    Jet Jaguar (Cool name, by the way! Now I've got the Jet Jaguar theme from MST running through my head):

    A lot of people have complained about the pop culture references, but personally, I still don't see how this is any different from Monsterpiece Theater or Wonder Pig (Piggy's spoof on Wonder Woman) or Bay of Pigswatch. The Muppets have always spoofed culture, both high and low. I agree that Hollywood Hogan's appearance was lame, but that was only because the first Muppet Movie featured such show-biz luminaries as Bob Hope. It was a long way for them to fall. But I have no problem with the spoofs in general. If one wants to make the case that the Muppets should have never spoofed pop culture ever, then (while I'd disagree with it) I could appreciate the consistency of their stance. But people seem to think this is the first time the Muppets have done anything like this, which just puzzles me.

    Some spoofs will undoubtedly hold up better than others. We can all hope and pray that Fear Factor will be forgotten in 10 years, but I think Moulin Rouge has some considerable durability for the years to come. But other shows have held up because of their stories and overall humor, even if the spoof doesn't hold up (I had no idea who "Stony Curtis" was when I used to watch The Flinstones, but I loved the show just the same).

    Dr. Tooth:

    quote: "It just ain't Christmas until guys in cheap animal suits kill each other." (or beat the living crap out of each other.. I forgot)

    I am very scared now. I am backing away slowly. ;)

    Stryder Wolfe:

    You realize you're all our new best friend now, right? ;) Is there any way you could download a copy of the whole song to the Internet so we could hear it?


    Welcome aboard! (And welcome to all the other new members since the last time I said so.) We hope you have fun here. We're pretty crazy but we're mostly harmless. :p
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Say... who was that uh... flamboyant hog that kept commenting on Kermit's "Tushy?"

    I thought he was very funny as a choreographer! Ha ha ha!

    WHo was David Araquette? (sp?) I have no idea who he played!
  11. towels

    towels New Member

    He was Danny-El the Accountant/Angel who got as much screen time as any of the Muppets. Bleh.
    He's also married to Courtney Cox of Friends.
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Yeah! Now I remember!

    It's kinda Funny becasue David also voices Jimmy, the Guardian Angel on Pelswick.

    Of course, Jimmy was more like a weird hippy who gave advice in cryptic clues, while the one on AVMMCM was more of a nebbish.
  13. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member


    Dude, you run synthpop.net??? ^_^ I'm one of the biggest synthpop fans on here(tho I think Ive spoken to others into it as well on here) I'm on electrogarden.com, but I enjoy checking out synthpop.net, side-line, and other related sites. So cool, Muppets, synthpop, hehe

    *listening to Echo Image cover of Neverending Story*

    But yes, that Hulk Hogan cameo was a pretty low point for MFS...the first 20 minutes of MFS are brillaint though.

    The MCM, I knew it would be hog deep in lame pop references...but I dont look at it as I would a movie, I look at it more as JHC's wink and nod to Muppet fans given all the fan goodies sprinkled throughout not meant for the average viewer tuning in.
  14. jetjaguar15

    jetjaguar15 New Member

    No, not totally. I'm the reviews editor for synthpop.net. Micke runs the site, but I do contribute a lot of content.
  15. EmmyMik

    EmmyMik New Member

    I'm sure that including the Fraggles in MFC doesn't date it at all...

    (many youngin's that I know do not know who Fraggles are)
  16. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member


    Hi Jamie, how long to you think it would take to make the DVD? doyou think we will get it this year (2002) before christmas?

    it's to bad they couldn't dub Jerry's voice like they have done in the past, but if he is i'll i could understand. I also wish that Frank would dub his voice just for Sam, Sam always has a only a few lines anyways. Frank would only need to do a few, and he could still be part of the muppets, he always will be but just to have a hand still in a little part of it would be nice, i would want him to do fozzie too, but it's a little much plus i think Eric or whoever is doing a fine job and just needs little work with it. it would be just a little treat just to have frank in a small part of the muppets still. i thought he did Yoda in the movie as a cameo which would be real for him.
  17. Stryder Wolfe

    Stryder Wolfe New Member

    well, I know it was a joke, but I think it was bad editing because it stuck out to me...because allthe characters afterwards were like,nodding in agreement...It didn't make it seem very joke-like...but oh well, probably just a timing thing...

    oh, as for the whole song..I dont know if I can make it a sound file...I've got it on VHS...how can I get it from there to my computer without it sounding like crap??
  18. Ol' Buddy Bert

    Ol' Buddy Bert New Member

    Well, it seems as though everyone has weighed in one opinion or another but I'd still like to add some of my thoughts, respond to some opinions and piggy back some comments as well.

    It's kind of wierd though as I think this is the first major Muppets project that I've had an opportunity to post about.

    First thought: I really, really enjoyed watching this film. I laugh out loud and I laughed often. My sister and I grew up watching the Muppet Show during its original broadcast and we watched this movie together and had a great time.

    On reflection however, like most of you I thought there were good points and not so good points to the film. I felt that the structure worked very, very well. It seems as though most people haven't noticed that the entire film is structured exactly like"It's a Wonderful Life". Not just the "I wish I'd never been born." sequence. I thought it worked well and understanding that I didn't mind the lenght of establishing the characters of Daniel and God.

    However, that aside. It was great to see the Muppets in character again. Someone said earlier that the balance was just right and I completely agree with that. Kermit, Fozzie and Piggy were in the spotlight while the secondary characters played the necessary supporting roles. It seems in response to some of the casting problems JHC has been thrusting Gonzo, Rizzo and others into the primary story arc and that hasn't paid off as well as it could have. But it was great to see Kermit and Fozzie back as they were.

    Fozzie in particular was probably the highlight for me. I didn't realize how much I missed him until he was back in the role that was established in the 1970's. Eric Jacobson did a wonderful job performing the character. Yes, the voice wasn't perfect but let's look at the performance as a whole. The character was completely there from inflections to body movement to the role that he played in the plot of the film. Excellent stuff (crocodile stuff aside).

    It was nice to see Scooter and Janice again as well. Again, I thought Brian Henson captured the character very, very nicely and although the voice wasn't exactly like Richard's he captured the essence of the character, which, I think is even more difficult.

    Piggy had her ups and downs. Although her voice sounded very nice, I think there were problems with the pacing of her material which I think someone mentioned earlier. There is a cadence and rythmn to her character from body language to speech patterns. I don't think it was quite there. I think she's a difficult character to pull off because, like Fozzie, there are so many small nuances that Frank (who's a marvelous actor) threw into the character. But, I think that the more Mr. Jacobson performs her the better it will be.

    All this said, I became very sad when I realized that Dave Goelz was the only original performer of all these great characters (Bill Barretta and Brian Henson aside for there Muppets Tonight characters).

    My main disappointment with the film came in the ending. It felt a little to quick and anticlimatic. I wonder if the carols at the end was cut for time purposes? I think it could have been a little bit grander in feel.

    The nightclub scene seems to be one everyone's talking about...I thought it was a mixed bag, personally. I know it was supposed to be disturbing but still...perhaps the iron cage dancing was a little much. Though I loved Beaker and even Johnny behind the bar.

    The criticism tht I want to address is the whether or not this film will age well. I know that the Muppets have always reference pop culture and have always included guest stars in their films.
    While I have no problem with the guest stars I think the reliance on pop culture as humor will date the film. In our post-modern driven culture we tend to think humour is attained by including as many pop culture references as possible (ie Aladdin). But while it's funny to our culture as it is today, I don't think we'll look back on it with quite the same affection. If you watch TMM it's the story and the characters that drive the film and I think that contributes to its agelessness rather than topical humour.
    I don't think this film will keep the same timeless quality. It was fun and I enjoyed it but I don't think I'll keep coming back to it like I have other projects the Muppets have been involved in.

    But still, a great step in the right direction and one I really, really enjoyed experiencing.

    That's about the size of it,
  19. RobintheBrave

    RobintheBrave New Member


    I probably should have posted this earlier, but wasn't able to until now. I have enjoyed reading all the posts up to this point, but wanted to clarify my point of view.
    Although I am concerned about the Muppets becoming edgier, I didn't have a problem with the nightclub scene. As someone else said, it wasn't reality, it was a picture of a Kermitless world, which made the sight of Sam, Beaker, and perhaps Scooter amusing.
    What I found more disturbing was Pepe's dialouge with Cussaak. I mean, there's a difference between Animal running around yelling "WO-MAN!" and Pepe talking about how hot and sexy he likes his ladies. When an actress implies "Not everything I say is a [sexual] inuenndo" in a Muppet movie, something is not right.
    I don't say this just because my personal ethics go against it, this is also something I think Jim would have a problem with. For example, when the Muppets did their brief stint with "Saturday Night Live", part of the tension that developed between Jim and the SNL writers was that he didn't want to dirty the image that the Muppets had earned through Sesame Street.
    I sincerely hope that Steve never had Kermit say "Porn is fine" because even if Jim did swear on the Arsenio Hall show, he would never have someone from Sesame Street say anything that might make a parent question their trust in the Muppets.
    Getting back to the movie, as other people have said, this one did have its strengths and weaknesses, and IMO, one of its weaknesses stemmed from trying to be "edgier".
    I hope no one thinks I'm just trying to stir up negative arguments, because I'm not. I'm just voicing a concern, like others have about the pacing and pop culture references.
    Besides, the racy dialouge didn't detract too much from how much I enjoyed this movie overall. I loved all the spoofs and seeing and hearing overlooked characters was wonderful.:)
    And, incidentally, I think it'd be cool to have a Grinch-coloured Fozzie figurine...:rolleyes: Someday maybe....:)

    "Robin, Sir Robin, the Brave"
  20. petrieboy

    petrieboy Member

    I'm sorry to come across as a stick in the mud, but I am getting more irritated reading the fan reactions to this film than I was during the film itself, which is saying something. I guess I would feel a lot better if the common thought was that this was sub-par Muppets. You're all acting like the Muppets are back. They are only pseudo-back.

    1) If there is one thing I know about, it is Miss Piggy, because she is my favourite character and I have been obsessed for years. Anyone who can hardly tell the difference between Frank and Eric's voice just doesn't get it. Eric is WAY OFF on Piggy. The comic timing is NOT THERE. The singing voice is atrocious. I could not understand what she was saying half of the time- Frank always made her voice crystal clear. What Eric does is a decent imitation (key word: imitation) of Piggy. The kind of voice and manner that someone close to you might perform at work to impress people. The kind of voice I'd say "Hey, that's pretty good. Haha." Not the kind of voice that makes me think it's Miss Piggy. It is not Henson-caliber puppet take over.

    2) IF THE MUPPETS DONT GET SOME REAL MUSIC BACK IN THE GAME SOON I AM GOING TO SCREAM. The Muppets without music (or only 1 attempt at a real song) is a travesty. But they need to keep away from the generic Disney-esque "Treasure Island" stuff. This means choosing the right writers. And they need to get someone with true soul back on board (Paul Williams did a perfectly acceptable job on Christmas Carol.)

    3) The innuendos and sacrilige would not have bothered me so much, if the rest of this film had a heart and soul big enough to counteract the "light" immorality. Again, it only had a pseudo heart and soul- it was an imitation of other movies- it was bursting at the seams with references and jokes that are not funny to those who aren't glued to American television screens... and will not be funny years from now even to those who are. I wouldn't mind, for instance, that Scooter was cage dancing at a rave if it's sad absurdity was balanced by a film that expressed true goodness and emotion (especially considering its wasted Christmas theme.) The movie as a whole, was as empty as a tin can.

    I feel like fans are yearning so badly for anything Muppet that they praise something far above what it deserves. My friend, who I watched the movie with, doesn't have strong feelings either way on the Muppets, but she likes them. When it was over she said "That was really disappointing, but I don't even think of this as the real Muppets. They should just call themselves something else now. They will never recapture what Jim Henson created."

    I disagree. The magic is somewhere close, yet so far. I think it begins with a real script (not one that borrows from Dickens, Stevenson, or Capra.) One with LOTS of glorious new music. And one where Piggy speaks slower, clearer, and takes some vocal singing lessons. I'm all for humour- but very little of the new stuff makes me laugh. The last thing that really cracked me up was on the mediocre "Muppets From Space" when Piggy got the tar beaten out of her while she kept bouncing back, saying "Is that all ya got?" I want to love the Muppets like I always have. I really do. But it's gonna take a lot more than this to make this dreamer believe.

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