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Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Frogpuppeteer, Jun 17, 2011.
Thanks, Terri! That was making me bonkers!
I sometimes wish the internet didn't leak everything to us so quickly, the wait wouldn't be as bad that way.
Oooh! Now I'm wondering if any other changes were made, and why they felt the need to remove the human-feather-chicken-dusters? Was there a complaint made about the use of chickens in this movie? We all know that's a sore point for poultry after the way their children are exploited at Easter.
Okay folks, I finally just had to do it... I recut the four trailers into more or less linear order, based on the announced plot and mainly the visual cues. There's a lot of speculation involved here, and several clips that had no definite spot just wound up going wherever I needed filler.
I was using simply Windows Movie Maker, and it left a few ghost frames and static pops despite my best efforts. It also has a tendency to cut off the last bit of sound, I noticed. But if you can overlook the glitches, you may find a few juxtapositions to enjoy. And I trimmed down Walter's electrocution considerably.
By the way, that's my voice replacing the radio DJ in the Starship song. For other audio, I used an instrumental version of the Muppet Show theme (from Disney's Hollywood Studios, so it felt appropriate) and a bootleg recording of the "Life's a Happy Song" musical number at the end.
My original plan was to use "We Built This City" throughout the entire thing, like a music video. But it just clashed in too many places, so I wound up removing all but one central snippet. Removing the song leaves quite a few silent places where I had muted everything but the dialogue, but the silence was most preferable to the previous cacophony, believe me!
Haha! Ooooh! I love the concept of putting it all into the right order, although I'm gunna have myself a little nitpic, with your permission sir.
In my (humble) opinion, the scene with Bobo and the swordplay comes right before that guy bursts in on the meeting with the TV exec (because of the logo behind the sword-fight being the same as the logo in the TV office...although there might be another explanation for that.)
I think the Amy Adams punch comes during the gathering of people together (possibly Animal's anger therapy?)
I think that the "Flashbulb" moment with Kermit and Piggy is a flashback (mainly because they are in the same room that the badies seem to have as a base later in the film).
Also, I think that the Electrocution thing comes a little earlier, soon after they first hit LA.
However, I do agree that the Anniversary stuff will occur on the same night as the big show (unless that was extra footage made specially for the trailers).
Loved this mashup!
Thanks for a quick analysis, especially in the wee hours of the morning.
Prior to biting the bullet and doing this in video, my first attempt last week was a WordPad document with frame caps where I was figuring out where things went. I titled it 'Muppets 2011 - Connecting the Dots'.
I did notice the 'cde' logo present in the Breathe office (on the picture behind Gary) and on the easel in the Bobo fencing scene, and in my WordPad version I dropped the photo there as a placeholder.
Once I was editing it as video, though, certain story-telling instincts took over, and it felt like Tex Richman's villainy was weakened if Statler's comment went unchallenged. So, emotionally, seeing him (presumably) whacking an underling with an epee' shores up his bad-guy-ness at that point. Do I think those two scenes occur together in the film? No, but with the material at hand, it was an organic marriage.
I don't think the presence of the 'cde' easel necessarily ties the two locations together. For one thing, they don't match well in the 'color script'. And again, from a story point, it feels more villainous to have your bad guy to be at his home base, plotting and preparing, perhaps being told about the good guys' plans (hence a portable visual aid, like an easel).
The Amy Adams punch was another one that had no definitive place in the timeline. Yet placing it right after her going out for a walk kept it from becoming a really Jason-centric section of the edit. Her fight scene fell there accidentally while I was moving other pieces to their only possible location, and I liked the juxtaposition. Instead of being weepy-eyed in all the remaining clips, she was finding her strength, and there were very few 'Mary alone' clips to use when they are separated.
I've got no concrete info on where that scene would fall in the real film, but in 'movie trailer' logic, it works. And, without more material to choose from, sometimes grouping mysterious moments solely by character was the only solution.
Parenthetically, the rain scenes are problematic on the timeline. In the shot of Mary retreating from the rainy window, she is clearly back in her classroom, wearing the same dress from the day they left for Los Angeles. Does she go home and put on the same clothes from before? Is her rainy scene one of the first moments in the film? Is it a fantasy image conjured by Gary while he wanders in his tux in the rain? No clue. In the WordPad version, I put it as image #1, with a question mark.
Likewise, one of my favorite combinations was Gonzo knocking the bowling pin off of Gary's head intercut with his speech at the Muppet Theatre about figuring something out and saying duh. He's at the theatre, there's no Mary, and Gary seems to be in the same costume, though that brown shirt/jacket thing goes over a lot of different shirts. And the implication is that maybe the bowling ball caused his epiphany.
But that got cut right into all the shots of Gary in a tux! Then, to further complicate things, I had some audio of Kermit that needed a different visual because I had taken the original footage and put it elsewhere as a silent shot. And here was a shot of Gary that I muted the announcer voice. The two pieces were almost exactly the same length, so I gave it a little test and it jelled surprisingly well. They were even both talking about love, so it felt 'right'.
By the way, I had a handful of other shots from the Green With Envy trailer where it was just Gary and Mary, and no sense of where they fell on the timeline, so finally I just decided to omit them.
I agree, the flashbulb shot of K & P does feel like a flashback... but that's a frustrating concept when your mandate is to put things in as linear a fashion as you can. That one floated in my lineup for a long time, and I suspected it would be cut altogether. Finally the only semi-sensible place to put it was with the other shot of Piggy with curly hair, but that one can't be a flashback too, since Walter's in it. And from the visual cues, Piggy HAS to arrive last at the Theatre, bumping her 'replacement' Miss Poogy, so shots of her can't show up at random times. Putting them all together at that point in the timeline gave her some gravitas. And we all know she deserves that.
As for Walter's electrocution, not sure how much earlier I can move it. Look at their costumes and the time of day.
Plus, this placement has a simple, logical progression of one character leading us to the next. Some notes culled from my WordPad version:
Mary is a popular auto shop teacher in Smalltown USA (note all those apples on her desk). Her classroom contains a 1948 British economy car called a Morris Minor. Her boyfriend Gary arrives to begin their vacation to Los Angeles. Outside, Mary and Gary and Gary's best friend Walter have a song and dance with the townspeople.
Arrival by bus, Los Angeles, daytime, same costumes. [Smalltown is close enough to get there in a day, yet far enough that Mary's never been before.] They visit the Chinese Theatre where Disney's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is playing (synergy). From the posted plot synopsis: "While in the L.A. area, they soon discover that despicable oilman Tex Richman (Oscar winner Chris Cooper) wants to tear down the Muppet Theater to drill for oil recently discovered underneath The Muppets' former home. In order to stage 'The Greatest Muppet Telethon Ever' and raise the $10 million needed to save the theater, Walter, Gary, and Mary must 'get the band back together' and reunite Kermit the Frog and the whole gang, who have all gone their separate ways." Trio discovers Richman and cronies plotting, prompting them to visit Kermit. Kermit must initially say no, prompting "really short movie" joke. Luckily, Kermit relents. Next is Fozzie, performing in Reno with the Moopets tribute band, including Miss Poogy. Next is Gonzo, plumbing magnate with Gonzo's Royal Flush. Explosion. More Muppets in some order: Rowlf, Scooter, Animal. Arrival in Paris to talk to Miss Piggy. Kermit is not with them at first? (What's with Fozzie's beret? Some shots he has it, some he doesn't?) Piggy refuses. On to CERN labs to get Bunsen and Beaker, and picking up 80's Robot too. (Where did Rowlf go?) More Muppets: Sam, Chef, Crazy Harry, rest of Electric Mayhem. 80's Robot driving them all in one car. (Where is Rowlf?) Pitching the telethon; Rowlf is back. More Muppets: Thog, Sweetums, Lew Zealand, rats, Miss Poogy (replacing no-show-sow Miss Piggy). Telethon is greenlit. Cleaning up the theatre montage. More Muppets: Wayne, Wanda, Link, Strangepork, penguins, more chickens, Beau? Rehearsing acts: fart shoes, Gonzo knocks bowling pin off Gary's head. Gary forgets anniversary? Something triggers Piggy's arrival, which leads to Poogy's dismissal. Do I smell a luau? More Muppets, more Muppets, more Muppets! Show? One dollar short of goal. Jail? Fans outside. Song and dance number.
LIKE! Okay, I wasn't meaning to sound critiquey! I was just commenting.
I do love how much time and dedication you put into it! And I LOVED Amy having the punch right after leaving...I had wondered where she would get that kind of aggression
I really do hope they come back from jail through the supporting crowds outside because I LOVE that concept!
I wonder if the final dollar in the telethon will be given by Statler, Waldorf, Uncle Deadly, or Bobo.
Just the other night I had a dream I was watching the movie (I wonder if this will happen often in the next few months), and in my dream it showed that the Muppets were very emotionally hurtful to Bobo, causing him to join the villian.
All the Muppety t-shirt-ness from a little while ago in this thread is inspiring me. I am definitely painting my own News Flash shirt to wear for the premiere!
I'm probably late on this (my apologies if I am), but has anybody seen these photos on the IMDB page for "The Muppets" (at least the first seven or so, as I'm sure we've all seen the rest by now)? They've uploaded some really nice ones. I especially like the photo of Kermit, Fozzie (with noticeably shorter legs than what we saw in the trailer), and Walter looking up. And check out Walter's Kermit the Frog tooth brush!
I realize it has next to no chance of happening, but considering 10 mil is also the number to another property, it'd be kinda cool if Trekkie Monster of Ave Q had a cameo in there somewhere, though you couldn't probably mention why he has that much cash lying around in a Muppets movie, LOL.
I agree, there's very little chance of this happening, but I'd also love it if they dropped a reference to Avenue Q. Even if they just mention the bad guys indulging in a little schadenfreude.
As much as I'd like an Avenue Q reference, it's more of a Sesame parody and that wouldn't make sense in a Muppet movie. Plus, referencing them would have to involve addressing the fact that they're puppets and they're trying to make it seem like the Muppets are real beings.
So, just out of idle curiosity, what do you all think will be the percentage of kids in the audience, and what percentage will be adults?
I think that there will probably be more adults than kids, but that a lot of the adults will bring their children-it's nice when parents and kids can relate to one another and like the same thing and I think that the Muppets will provide a great opportunity for that!
Something tells me the yappy little ankle biters would jump on a bunch of lame CGI penguins singing very sexual songs out of context, but if the parents know what's good for them, they'll drag the to see their childhood favorites. This is definitely a movie for parents that grew up with the Muppets that want to share them with their kids. And there aren't a lot of opportunities for that, because most of the time, they screw it up so bad the fanbase refuses to watch it (can't blame them) and their kids don't even know or care who the characters are... It would be redundant to list any examples.
i think we will see alot of kids at this movie, its going to be the thanksgiving weekend and i know alot of parents are going to be looking for things to get the kids out of the house.
i doubt we will see teenagers there, as much as i see teens wearing muppet clothes i bet 50% of them probably have know idea what or who they are wearing
I think it all depends on the time you go to see the movie. Matinees will probably be really kid-heavy. Evening shows will have more teens and adults. I'd expect any audience to have a mix, though.
it seems like people are not wanting kids there...but dont be surprised when you enter the theater and its full of children
at 0:12 it's fozzie's voice
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