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"The Muppets" isn't the Muppets

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Reevz1977, Jun 29, 2012.

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Do you think "The Muppets" was the Muppets?

  1. Yes

    84.3%
  2. No

    7.8%
  3. Not sure

    7.8%
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  1. DannyRWW

    DannyRWW Well-Known Member

    I think Kermit was a tad somber in the last one but it suited the story....Likewise VMMC.... But both he wasn't one dimensional...his place in Muppets from Space seemd a little flat...but I think in those days it was more Gonzo and Rizzo anyways so kermit kind of took a back seat to everything
  2. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    I sort of wonder if that had to do with Jim Henson's passing because in MCC and MTI they were still kinda being delicate with Kermit.

    As for the recent film I understand why Kermit had to be more serious then in previous films. But now I'm ready to get back to the happy, go lucky Kermit we all know and love. :)
  3. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Oh I think Steve does a wonderful job with Kermit I try not to compare him to Jim Henson too much though because I don't know just doesn't seem fair. Jim's performance of Kermit is in a class act all by itself of course no one would ever be able replicate that. I've always said Steve isn't Jim and Jim isn't Steve. Their two different people with different styles of performing. But that doesn't mean Steve's is any less good because it's NOT Jim Henson.

    Jim will always be Kermit no matter what. But I felt Steve's performance in the recent film to me was a great testimony of how good he has really gotten with Kermit and how far he's come. I think he's finally found his own Kermit. Because in the early days I think he was trying too hard to be and sound like Jim. But I think as Steve performed Kermit more he started to get more comftorable.
  4. miss kermie

    miss kermie Well-Known Member

    I just thought that the movie was more focused on the reationship of Gary and Mary, and Walter becoming a Muppet, rather than The Muppets getting back together again.
  5. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    I would say that in the beginning of the film and when Gary goes after Mary towards the end it seemed that way but once we established who they were and once they met up with Kermit they did kind of just go to the background for a lot of the film and allowed The Muppets to do their thing. IMO at least anyways. Either way I loved the movie.
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I mentioned the problems with MFS multiple times. The script was extensively labored, the director was a hack that just didn't get the characters (and his masterpiece film is Alvin and the Chipmunks... just saying)... there was a LOT of good Gonzo/Rizzo/Pepe/Bobo/Jeffery Tambor. That was done right. Piggy was sort of clumsily dealt with (though the news reporter bit sort of worked, too bad it didn't go too far). But Kermit just felt like he wasn't there. I can't blame Steve... I can't even really blame Joey. But Kermit should have been a lot more concerned about Gonzo (he had some small bursts of concern near the end), but he didn't have any heart to heart moments with Gonzo, leaving Rizzo to do that for him. And the lack of any chemistry with Piggy. They really should have at least had a sequence where he supports her show when a bunch of other Muppets were fighting over the remote.

    There were only a couple of outstandingly Muppety scenes in that film... the opening musical number, Gonzo's party, the Rat escape, Gonzo and VanNeuter... that was great, and I still think those parts of the movie had that Great Muppet spark that makes me actually like the film... but the rest of the film just... a complete inconsistant mess of trying hard to make them look real through mundane activities.
    newsmanfan likes this.
  7. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Why did you quote my post? You didn't have to repeat yourself to me. :/
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I don't see why it's a concern... I'm just quoting to reiterate a point. It's one I brought up a couple times, but there is a different angle on it, and I repeat ONLY as an "Oh Yeah! TOTALLY" with color commentary.

    Still, the take away is, there are projects where the characters were a LOT more flat than this one. I'm guessing those who complained about it didn't see those.
  9. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    I never said it was a concern I was just asking.

    MFS was a failture in it's own right I don't even think Kermit cared about himself let alone Gonzo or anyone else in that movie.
  10. Rugby

    Rugby Member

    I enjoyed The Muppets as a lifelong fan and admirer. I can see how some people can have some issues with the movie. Honestly speaking, the voice and mannerisms of Piggy didn't gel well for me. I think there is much room for improvement to bring her back to the Piggy we all know and love. Fozzie was inconsistent, sometimes sounding great and sometimes sounding not so great.

    I think people may have trouble with an unknown character like Walter pushing tried and true classic characters like Gonzo out of the picture, making people think, "What am I watching? This isn't the Muppets!" I was also a little bothered at where Kermit lived and what he had become. He would have moved on to bigger and better things, staying active, maybe working behind the camera or working on other projects, not becoming a recluse or a museum piece. It was sad and I didn't want to accept the fact that the Muppets would break up and dissolve due to becoming irrelevant.

    I will tell you though, I almost cried when they replicated the opening to The Muppet Show. I had goosebumps running up my arms. It was so amazing to watch. They REALLY did a great job with that part. But I also think it's time for the Muppets to part ways and move on from the likes of Whoopi Goldberg and find some new talent. She's too controversial and alienates half the fan base with her wacky political diatribes on The View. Keep politics out of the Muppets! The Muppets also needs to be Jason Segel's last muppet movie. I really don't want to see the Muppets become all about Jason Segel.

    The movie was so intriguing being written from a muppet maniac rabid fan point of view that most of us can relate to, not to mention the freaky muppet dreams of them coming alive and meeting them all. That's where I really related to the movie. I can't tell you how many dreams I've had of meeting Jim Henson and getting to work with him and it feeling so real! So while not classic Muppet material through and through, it was still really enjoyable and where it falls a little short can be forgiven.
  11. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Well that would be a little difficult because the majority of show biz people do tend to be pretty vocally liberal, hehe.
    bandit likes this.
  12. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    I can see that. I also think that people who think that were missing the point of the movie. I don't care what the title says. The movie is about our relationship with the Muppets.
    What evidence? In MTM, he had to get knocked on the head to get a decent paying job, forgetting who he was. In VMX, he wishes he had never been born than face his problems. In TMM, he mopes in self-pity when he thinks he's responsible for everyone missing the auditions. I think this movie fits Kermit perfectly: he can only drive the group forward if THEY are there to back HIM up. When left to his own devices, he folds like a paper sack.
    You want stubborn will to survive, you go with Piggy, not Kermit.
    I'm sure they do that when they fire Sam for his political views.
  13. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    You know what, I agree with you about "The Muppets" use of Kermit. Even if he quit the entertainment world, he would have been doing something somewhere to help people. The world of the movie doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny, but neither do GMC and MTM if we start picking them apart. I still feel they should have mentioned some sort of charity work for Kermit. I can see him building houses in New Orleans or something.
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member


    Bull. Someone says something stupid on some show. They shouldn't abandon a longtime partnership with a friend of the characters for that. She's done AMAZING work for Sesame Street, and we shouldn't completely forget that because someone doesn't agree with her politics.

    Yah think I want Pixar to dump John Ratzenberger because I don't agree with his political views? No way.

    I'm sorry... but you completely missed the point of the movie. Happy peppy Kermit moving on to something else WASN'T what the film was about. That's not how depression works.

    The point of the film wasn't that Kermit was able to deal with being alone and movie on. That wouldn't have given the film the sense of urgency it needed. The point of the film was that Kermit hit a low we'd never expect him to hit, and he was the only one of his friends that wasn't able to get over the break up and move on with his life. if he did, would the movie even matter? Heck... if he was that happy, he'd track everyone down and call them on the phone every so often. That's not film material.

    The film NEEDED a depressed, hopeless Kermit. it needed to show that some people can't get over things without someone else's help. It's not just a film, it's a greater reality of depression. You doubt yourself, things get darker, you lose who you once were. You NEED to be social to get it back.
    newsmanfan, dwmckim and SSLFan like this.
  15. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    As Piggy said in an interview when promoting the film "you couldn't really have all of us starting at the top because that means things in the film would've only gotten worse you have to start at the bottom so that things start to get better and work our way back to the top." I know hard to believe Piggy said such things but she did.
    Beauregard likes this.
  16. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Yeah. The one thing that wasn't established in the movie was the happiness of the characters who really made it big, other than Gonzo and Piggy. They were both happy, yet unfulfilled.

    Fozzie and Kermit got the worst of the group. Fozzie because he didn't have confidence and was looking for something he lost in the wrong places. But Scooter, Sam, and Bunsen and Beaker seemed happy working at their respective places.

    But like I said, the point is, Kermit lost his confidence HARD. Everyone moved on but him. Heck, Jason Segal made movies sort of like that, only with the main character being the only one that moved on (Knocked Up and Forgetting Sarah Marshall... that movie was about completely getting over a relationship that went sour).
  17. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    Well Kermit has even said this was probably his most dramatic role ever. And yes Kermit did hit rock bottom pretty badly but it just goes to show Kermit is at his best when he's with everyone as opposed to being alone.
    Borples likes this.
  18. Borples

    Borples Active Member

    I've always wondered about Kermit's comments about having to learn "40 different ways to act sad" or whatever. Is he just being funny or is Steve subtly complaining about Kermit's gloomy role? The world may never know....
  19. Pinkflower7783

    Pinkflower7783 Well-Known Member

    On that note I think that was Kermit just being silly. Lol!
  20. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    The Muppets are incredibly self-aware. Kermit (and Steve) will have almost immediately picked up on the fan-comments that Kermit was sad in the movie, and immediately found fun ways to play with that self-awareness.
    Borples likes this.


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