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Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Patty E., Sep 25, 2002.
petrieboy, you are my new hero...
No, you see, the Crips were ACTIVELY killing, and Snoop thought: "that's for me."
When you joined your church, it was not actively burning witches.
Anything else you need explained?
yes, because none of us EVER talk about killing someone, do we sid? do you know what the word "hypocrite" means? how about the word "bigot"? i mean if you're going to accuse me of namecalling anyway, i might as well actually do so, and use some accurate names...i'd tell you that you were the pot calling the kettle black, but then you go into a panic because you think i called you black...and that's just unacceptable, right? why don't we listen to you and keep anyone who doesn't agree with your way of doing things out. while we're at it, let's beat up some gay people and learn to hate based on the color of one's skin.
you're an idiot...
That's pathetic. Hey, you keep building an argument on nothing, dear. Way to go.
Shake the sand out of your head and tell me when I have ever said a bad word about gays. Freddie Mercury is my favourite rock singer.
It's called a "thread" for a reason. Why don't you back up a few posts and you'll discover that I ALREADY equated accepting Snoop without a renouncement of his evil life would be akin to accepting a WHITE neo-Nazi skinhead with a few rhymes who beats up gays and Jews without having him renounce HIS EVIL ways.
Is there anything else YOU would like explained, pop tart?
I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion." --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800.
Well, some of us have to work for a living.
You've done a fine job, all of you; attacking me together at once.
What a perfect example of the gangs who you just WILL NOT condemn, will you?
Wherever you find love...
Maybe it is my fault, concentrating on Christianity. Maybe none of this has to do with Christianity and I've just assumed that it does (it usually does.) Maybe you are just concerned citizens, family agenda supporters, the Anti Gang Commitee of Tennessee... I dunno. If you do abide by the law of Christianity, then I think you're a big fat hypocrite for tossing Snoop away and scorning him. If you play by other rules, well I don't agree with those rules. I don't agree with murder, but I don't see what murder has to do with a Muppets appearance, on a Christmas special of all things. Are we not more than the worst of our faults and errors? Were you there when Snoop shot someone? Do you know what exactly happened? Did you grow up in a ghetto and experience the harsh reality of Snoop's world? Or do you only hear about it through the "filth" of his lyrics, of which you don't read or listen to anyway? Have you thought of putting yourself in even the same room as his shoes - have you considered that he might be feeling rejected, possibly even sad, and hated for appearing on a family Christmas show and being removed and told it was due to editing? Give me a break- unless he has worse acting skills than Vanilla Ice, the editors would have made room. Maybe Snoop's fault, aside from any allegation of murder, is that he is more honest than many of us, throwing the crap in his life out for the public- airing his dirty laundry, while the rest of us hide it in our closets and put on a pretty face. What if we all were reduced by the public to the worst of our behavior, and hated for the worst of our sins, so that we were not allowed to appear on a family oriented show? We might resent that public even more... act out even more... set an even worse example. Love breeds love... rejection breeds rejecting. Hate breeds hate. To me, this is as clear cut as day and night. But I forget that some people live in (metaphor coming...) places like Alaska and Norway, where day and night often blend. They tend to be bitterly cold places. There is a film I can't recommend highly enough for any Christian, or anyone who wants to know what true Christianity is, "The Eyes of Tammy Faye." For the rest of you, I've not a clue what it will take to open your hearts.
I was going to bed, but as I checked my hotmail for the last time, somebody made another post.
It seems some others are missing. Hmmm.
Anyway, petrieboy, why don't you visit the families of some of the people those gangs killed. Those thugs made those families a lot poorer than any inner-city kid could ever be.
No excuses for those who take everything away from others.
"It's a he(ll) of a thing, killing a man. You take away everything he's ever had, and everything he will have"
Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven
let me make a quote too: "Get bent" - Mike Wickliff, 10/7/02
you're an ***, spouting rhetoric, and trying to twist the words of others so that you look good. i hate this whole vile thread, as i can look back and see exactly where i got ****** off, and i do not GET ****** off very easily. but one can tell that you're just feeding off of it. i would love to say that i was "done", wash my hands of it, and walk away...but then you would claim victory, and i cannot let that happen. you and your way of thinking are a disease. you hide behind "god and country", all the while subtly pushing your own agenda on the people who see the half-truths, and are naive enough to follow along. in the past, i have seen you as a bit heavy-handed, but usually with a good point behind it. now i see how dangerous that thinking was. you have done nothing but deflect what has been said to you into frivilous tangents, all the while saying that none if us would discuss the real issue, which is exactly what we were doing...we just didn't aknowledge what you said as the main issue. all i wanted you to do was apologize for implying that one of your fellow members on this board must have been high to try and at least aknowledge that there was a second side to the story. they made a valid statement, that you tried to invalidate by trying to discredit the person saying it. no one bit. in fact, someone else, someone i call "friend", called you on it. so you tried to discredit her too. that's when _I_ got into it. i will not allow people to treat my friends in such a shameless manner. then you had the audacity to try and imply that we were all gangsta fans on drugs. that was the last straw. i have always been a pretty easy-going guy. usually, people can say what they like about me, and i don't care because i know they are wrong. but you don't know me at all, you don't know my life...and you are NOT to insult me like that. drugs, in all their forms, are an evil, vile thing. so evil, in fact that i go through almost every day in constant pain because i refuse to take anything to quell it. i am afraid of the potential that exists for something to go wrong. i've seen it happen. and i will not let you take away all that effort with a wave of ill-informed words. you still PROBABLY would have only gotten email from me, pointing out all that i have just said, but you had to insult my friends...that just doesn't fly. i will NOT sit idly by while you assault someone else's character. you don't get to. just by trying to see the situation from multiple angles, they have proven that they are ten times the person you are. and let me steal some thunder, since i know you're going to try it...yes, i just did the same thing i accused you of. i just assaulted your character. but you know what? i don't care. i'm telling you the truth as i see it. the hope is that you'll take a long, hard look at how you have conducted yourself over the course of this thread. i know that what i personally have resorted to sickens me. i don't like cursing at people. i don't like calling names. and i detest insulting people, even you. but i felt it was necessary to get the point accross. so congratulations...in a way, you did win. you dragged me down to your level. but now you're going to pay for that. i hope that makes you feel good.
oh, and one more quote - "The road to he-ll is paved with good intentions" you may want to think on that a little.
"you dragged me down to your level."
Oh, that's RICH! And so original to use in an online argument, too
Listen chum, I'm disappointed in myself for wallowing in this mire, but I chose to do so.
You chose to do so, as well. We both did. At least I'm owing up to it.
Or, are you--in this very moment––demonstrating the same bankrupty of the will and shirking of responsibility that you endorse in Snoop? Oh, boo-hoo, he had a hard time. Well, I'VE HAD a hard time of it as well, and that doesn't give me ANY right to kill an innocent.
You can't even have a mean-spirited argument without blaming it on your environment. That says it all
Why don't you save some bile for Snoop, instead of your fellow Muppet fans.
The best comment I heard on the OJ trial was this: "If you stand in front of a TV CAMERA and call the proceedings a 'circus,' you are one of the clowns."
That means we're all on equal footing in this argument.
I put myself here, Grail. I don't assume superiority. Can't you at least take responsibility for participating in an argument?
Well, no, you can't. The proof is right up there.
Unless, of course, you'd care to edit it out.
Keep that head in the sand, pal
first off...don't you dare call me "chum" you're not allowed.
secondly, i have NEVER said i endorse the man, i said that if he truly was trying to turn his life and his image around, then he deserved to be able to do it. i didn't mention his environment in that post at all, i don't know what you're reading. and for the record, you aren't the only one who's had it rough in the past. i've had one heck of a rough time of it, but i don't bring it up because i made my life better, and i refuse to use my past as a crutch. i did the work. i made my life better. crying that you had it rough doesn't wash with me. do i think there are sometimes extenuating circumstances? you bet your *** i do. do i care? nope. but if you love Henson as much as you claim, why not trust their judgement? they're the ones in charge, they've been doing it for a long time, and they know the whole story. which is something NONE of us can claim. if they allowed him to be in it, then they had a reason, despite all the "argument" you've put forth.
oh, and i fully accepted the fact that i PUT myself in this...but i did so because i refuse to let you win this. you are wrong, and i will fight you on every turn. you're the reason i'm here, there is no denying that, and i hate you for it. but that's why i fight the fight...because in the end, the result is worth it.
Message From A Moderator
I have received enough complaints about this thread to warrant a statement.
There has been much name-calling and hot tempers with many members on this thread. It is not necessary for everyone to agree and this has turned from being a healthy debate long ago.
If you cannot show mutual respect and stay on topic then please move on. Nobody is stupid and no one's opinion is worthless and it doesn't appear that anyone has new information to add. This whole thing has gotten really silly.
I hate getting into these things and I will not sift through rights and wrongs. It really is time to move on.
sorry Jamie, but i still believe he owes both AruggeRadio and Skeeter Muppet an apology. what he said was rude, and inconsiderate, and they deserve at least that much.
I hear what you are saying, but sorting out rights and wrongs just doesn't look productive at this point. People seldom get the apologies they feel they are owed. It's an unfortunate fact of life. It's best if we just all move on from here.
i don't like it, but alright. it's not like i have much choice in the matter.
Personally I think that's the big problem for some people...actually two big problems...
But nevertheless, I will move on. Besides, I lost all iota of respect for you-know-who a LONG time ago.
No Sly was in a hardcore porno. Showing his genitals and also having sex on film, trust me I saw the film in college. If you want to confirm it I'm sure you can find a copy of it on ebay.
You stated in your earlier post that we have forgotten what henson gave us, or we don't get what henson gave us. On the contrary I live my life by the teachings of Jim Henson. He tough us to love our brother and sister, each one is different and the same. That we all have to live together to make our society succeeded.
The thing is in these posts regarding Snoop Dogg, you along with Patty E have not only shown yourself to be a raciest, but also disrespectful of the others people that post on this board. Just because we don't see things the way you do that I must be on drugs, or Luke is an idiot, Or Skeeter is childish. The only person I see acting that way is yourself. Heck I posted right before I went to bed 8 hours ago, and low and behold there is like 6 new from you. What do you do just press the refresh bottom over and over?
The point I was trying to make is rather you like it or not Snoop Dogg along with Dr. Dre and others furthered the art of Hip Hop music to another plateau. To be honest I'm not a huge fan of Snoop Dogg, I only own his first 2 records. But I still appreciate what he has done and understand because I take two seconds to listen to the meaning in something to understand that he is talking about a lot more then just glorifying gang banging. But i must be on drugs to see that, sense thats such elementary school rib. As an artist myself I get tired of hear of people that want to block art just because they think it may be morally objectionable for there pore kids. Instead of doing there job as a parent and actually parenting there kids they look for an easy way out. Which I find hypocritical, and I find yourself to be a hypocrite.
wow!! i've been gone for two days and people go crazy. j/k. anyways, sidcrowe, i read through your posts and i think its you who is missing the point. this thread started off by a person making a statement about how horrible snoop was, accompanied by a letter to mr. rivkin saying how irresponsible the jim henson company was for allowing such a disturbing human being on the christmas show. i don't think all of the people that have been posting here on this thread are condoning his actions. i think what most of us are trying to get through to some people is the simple fact that a group of people should not decide what is and is not right for the rest of the population to watch or listen to.
The "chum" stands for "Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Moron."
I wasn't crying about anything. I was trying--in vain--to be an example to you.
The only example you admire is the example of a whining, cowardly lump of excrement called Snoop, who joined with other degenerate scumbags who kill others for sport.
Not a bad word to say about Snoop, ANYWHERE, huh?
What a fitting experiment. A bunch of people who will not look through all the lies and hype and wrestle with the reality of urban killer gangs. This, in microcosm, is the reason why gangs are allowed to flourish. There is no will within you to eliminate them.
Folks like you always see the light...just as the bullet flies into your head.
Let the scummy Snoop find somewhere else to rework his contrived public persona.
Snoop does his best work in the same place where your mind is: in the GARBAGE pail of the editing room.
When that special airs, you'll be steaming, and thinking of me.
I'll be thinking of you, and laughing.
(now, it's off to my JOB...adios for the next 11 hours or so. Talk amongst yourselves, and maybe form a Snoop appreciation society. Don't forget there are still Crips and Bloods around. Go out and find some, and talk Muppets with them. Best of luck to you all with that)
Originally posted by sidcrowe
No, you see, the Crips were ACTIVELY killing, and Snoop thought: "that's for me."
Really? Is this true? Did Snoop Dogg actually say this? Could find me an interview or press kit or somethin' where he said this? I don't remember Snoop or any gang member joining so that they could kill.
Exactly! Henson IS counterculture!
Separate names with a comma.