Snoop Doggy Dog (The Degenerate)

[CaptCrouton]

Hey, sorry I've missed the show. I got tired of this thread and didn't realize people were talking about/to me. Guess I wanted to take my blows if we're throwing rocks at the fundamental Christians again. *sigh* This is why I left my last forum.

I think I'm established enough in the MC Forum to express my opinions without people saying I'm here just to "spout propaganda." Maybe a few people will still like me when we're done. I'm always amazed at how much people who cry "Tolerance" really aren't so tolerant and despise conservative religious people. It's okay, because Jesus said to love your enemies.

Entertainers have a certain obligation to those they entertain. It's the nature of the beast. You can't entertain without an audience. Now they don't have to listen, but that's at the expense of losing their audience. Remember Kermit went to Hollywood to "make millions of people happy." But the studios say, "Hey Kerm, those millions of people need to pay up, or no next film."

Like it or not, Henson hasn't been successful when they strayed away from a certain kind of family faire. I mean, you hardcore guys like the Dark Crystal and Labyrinth. Some of you even like Gortch, if you've seen it. But in "The Works" those projects were considered disappointments. DC, I believe, was too ahead of it's time, and too distant from what people wanted. I didn't care for Labyrinth. Gortch was just a bad idea. Now that's all my opinion, but I think millions of soccer moms and minivan drivers agreed to some extent. They walked away saying, "Those aren't the Muppets I love." All the ideas were revolutionary, edgy, and stretched the boundaries of puppetry in our cultural mindset. But they all pretty much bombed. Henson learned the hard lesson. Millions of people were not happy.

Every day we vote by our feet and our wallets and our emails and letters. You don't like fundamental Christians or their views? You have the ability to communicate just like they do. And they've been losing. Look how much TV has changed in the past 20 years. There is no prime time show with Andy Griffith values (or humor for that matter).

Start your own petition entreating Henson to keep Snoop if you like. But I don't think Henson or Kermit wants to be associated with a guy who promotes:

1) Disrespect and abuse of women. (Citing lyrics from ("B**** Please") and ("Doin' Too Much") and how about the lyrics "[I'd] smack a b**** in a second."

2) Non-Muppety Violence ("If n-ggas step out of line, I shoot 'em in their spine and break their necks," "Playin' with my AK . . . takin' a life or two")

3) Glamorization of drugs and alchohol (Citing "Freestyle Conversation" and maybe "Dolomite" in which he said if he would legalize marijuana and prostitution) I don't want to look further, thank you. I just feel polluted by all the vulgarity.

Snoop isn't all bad, he does love his momma. But I think Snoop put it best when he said, "Do I look like a mutha******* role model?"

Now Henson has never expressed why they disassociated themselves with Dogg. But he's really not known for promoting literacy. (Sorry Cantus' Ghost, but you were talking to me) I applaud the decision, regardless. And that's my opinion. In the USA I'm still at liberty to express it. I think it was endowed by my Creator.

I know I've only answered one or two questions that have been tossed in my general direction. But there are many of you, and few of me. So please bear with me.

Markus

 

[Jivepuppet]

Patty E Re- "Gangs"

To Patty E

I've posted on this thread a few times, and stated my opinion, and nothing offended me untill you brougt gangs into it.

I grew up in a neighborhood where gangs were a way of life. It wasn't a bad neighborhood, but the bad ones were only moments away. It's very obvious you have no idea what you're talking about when you bash Mr. Broadus for joining a gang. Sometime you HAVE to just to survive. You should feel lucky that it wasn't you. I do. I was lucky, amd I'm grateful for it. Some of my freinds in my younger years (I'm mid Twenties now) barely survived EVERY weeked of their lives for over a decade because of gangs. But, on the other side I've seen gangs do wonderful things for their communities, and not all gangs are out "slappin' da hoes, and pinpin' wit 40 ounces of malt and a gat" as the media has led many to believe.


This will be my last post on the subject. I'm bored of it, and very annoyed, which a first on Muppet Central for me. What it comes down to is the scene in question is out, and at least another half hour also, so really we all lose, because less Muppets, is less fun.

Jon
jivepuppet@aol.com
feel free to email me

 

[AruggeRadio]

I also hope that Henson Co includes the full version of the film in a later DVD or cable airing of the film.

Ok a lot more points have been brought up sense the last time I posted so let me state my opinion on a few of these things. First is Patty E’s posting bashing Snoop Dog for being a part of a gang. Patty E if you had ever taken 5mn to actually sit down an listen to a Snoop Dog album you would know that most of what he says in his music is there is a better way to go then joining a gang. He talks about the problems of his life and the downfall of some of the decisions he has made. But as Jon (Jivepuppet) stated if you grew up in a situation like Snoop Dog did you would have probably gone to join a Gang as well just so you could survive another day. The Muppets have always been supportive of important artists like Snoop Dog. You can enjoy Snoop Dog or not but he is a very important person in the evolution of Hip Hop. Taking it from an underground phenomena to a world wide community of artists.

If you look at the history of the Muppets, Snoop Dog by far isn’t the first person who has worked with the group who has come form questionable backgrounds. Many of us have stated Coolio as a PG rated rapper, I happen to really enjoy Coolio but in no way was his work PG. Gangsters Paradise talks about Gang banging, also a lot of his music talks about Drug and other objectionable material. He certainly isn’t MC Hammer, Coolio although he had quite a bit of Pop Success talks about the same type of things in his music as Snoop Dog dose. He just wasn’t as predominate a force in the furthering of the hip hop genera therefore these things are not as public when we talk about his work as we do when we think of Snoop Dog.

One other post mentioned Paul Simon. When Paul Simon was on the Muppet show the Muppets and Simon preformed “Scarborough Fair”, which many over time have believed to be a song about smoking marijuana. Garth Brooks was a guest on the Muppets Tonight. Many of his most popular songs are about mass alcohol consumption, domestic abuse and other social issues. Also the song he preformed on the Muppet Tonight ‘We Shall Be Free” has a pro homosexuality theme to it which caused it to be banned on many country stations when it first was released in 1992.

This is what annoys me the most about groups that believe that just because an artist talks about gangs, drugs sex that they should be kept from our kids at all cost. Is that most of them don’t listen to the music or see the film to even form an educated opinion. When Eminem song “The way I am” came out he got a lot of flack for this lyric ‘Middle America Now its a tragedy now its so sad to see, an Upper class city, havin this happenin then attack Eminem cause i rap this way.’ Instead of looking at this as a bold Dylanesque use of lyricism they attack him because they believe he tried to make light of something, Instead of seeing that he is just pointing out that we have ignored these problems in our intercity for years now. It is because of people spewing ignorance like that that these problems continue and it will take a whole lot more then just writing some letters that give you a false sense of doing something to solve these problems. Parent your kids, I wouldn’t allow my kids to listen to a gangster rap album at the age of 5, but I wouldn’t stop them form seeing a show featuring one of these artists and would never stop others form seeing it as well.

 

[tomahawk]

capt.crouton,
maybe you should go back and read the list of performers that have worked with the muppets in the past, do some research on thier lyrics, thier pasts etc. let us know what you come up with.

 

[grail]

man...what is there something in the water that's making us all nasty recently? Patty's arguments may be a bit out there, but she's still entitled to them...stop beating her up about it.

that being said, i think Patty needs to sit down and watch Kevin Smith's "Dogma". people protested this movie because it was "spitting in the face of god", but none of the people protesting had seen the movie. many people who have watched it (myself included) have found themselves with a renewed interest in their religion and why they practice it. it really makes you think.

which brings me to my point, to be perfectly honest, a lot of the "against" arguments seem to be knee-jerk reaction to a persona, and what the public perception of that persona is. now, i actually agree with that he shouldn't be in the flick, but that's just because i personally don't like him, and would rather see someone like the guys from They Might Be Giants pop up. in the future, having an opinion is fine, but have the FACTS to back it up, don't come in spouting rhetoric that you got from someone else, just because they told it to you (which oddly enough, is kinda one of the themes of Dogma).

to everyone else...lighten up, and stop beating on the new people, it's not fair.

to aruggeradio - i'm not a country fan, and never knew that about "We Shall Be Free". now i'm conflicted...i hate giving cool points to country singers, and i've already had to give him more than i like giving to ANYBODY in a 10-gallon hat...heh

to captcrouton - i hate admitting this, but there are some surprisingly strong arguments to the legalization of both pot and prostitution. some people have actually apparantly done some heavy research into it, and though i hate it...i'm beginning to think they may have a point...i think that the only reason it hasn't been done already is that it would be political suicide for anyone who agreed to it. of course saying that makes this "good" little mormon-boy look like a sexfiend and a pothead, right? trust me, nothing is further from the truth...

 

[tomahawk]

there's something wrong with being a sex fiend and a pothead? when was this flyer handed out?

 

[grail]

heh...depends on who you ask, i guess...i just wanted to point out that those weren't MY choices. i just think they seem to have a better argument than the opposition's "because it's wrong", and was giving them credit for that.

 

[CaptCrouton]

Tomahawk

I hope you didn't think I did an insufficient task of researching. It certainly wasn't a good time for me. On the other hand, I didn't spend any time at all finding the info. It's not like I had to dig up through documents finding something, anything scandal worthy to make him look bad.

However, my purpose isn't to find skeletons of the past of every performer on the Muppet Show, but merely to cite a few examples of why Henson, as family entertainers, might want to distance themselves from the artist.

Certainly few of us haven't done things we're ashamed of. But for Snoop, that's his entire message. It's his mission. Maybe as a follow up, let me suggest to you that you find a song written by Snoop that would be appropriate for the Muppet Show without editing. Any other recording artist that Muppets have had, I think I can find one easily. In fact, the Paul Simon episode was all his music. I don't see the drug reference in Scarborough Fair, but I wasn't looking for it. It sounds like the substance of urban legends. But again, I don't have to speculate about meaning with Snoop at all.

Of course, you might consider anything to be appropriate. But what I'm asking, in my challenge, is for anything free from profanity, glamorization of drugs, murder, violence, disrespect of women. I think the quest could be quite insightful. I think the only song I could find that even came close was "I Love my Momma" and even that had a few vulgarities, drug references, sexual ref, etc. While the basic message of the song is good and honoring, as much as Snoop can for his praying mum, all those things are what makes up his persona, not just his past.

Again, I'm not on a witch hunt. I hope you win this challenge.

 

[CaptCrouton]

Oh, I apologize. There are no sex references to "I Love My Momma." I misread a line. So just drug ref and profanities.

 

[Drtooth]

I just don't think that people should try to censor kid's shows (even though the Muppets are not a kids show) when there are more pressing matters to be dealt with. I still think the main focus should be to get rid of Jerry Springer, Jenny Jones, Dating shows, and MTV's stunt show, whose name I can't mention (it's another word for donkey). These shows poison kid's minds. It teaches them disrespect, and that pain and torment are fun, as long as you do it to other people. Kids in my neighborhood are EVIL!! There's no other word to discribe them. This is the reason why so many school shootings took place. Not because of Snoop Doggy Dog, but becasue no one was taught to respect and love their fellow man. I was, and I only say mean things (repeat SAY mean Things) when I lose my temper.

I think that Snoop Dog's censorship is not quite as valid as trashy talk shows and those shows in which people set fire to themselves, only so little brats can laugh at them!

Do us all a favor and get Jerry Springer cancelled next? Please?