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Snoop Doggy Dog (The Degenerate)

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Patty E., Sep 25, 2002.

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  1. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I remember a time when some people claimed that Alice Cooper and Ozzy Osbourne were the devil in carnate, but they did fantastic non-offensive work with the Muppets. I'm sure there was a letter campaing against Alice Cooper's Muppet Show apperance twenty-five years ago.
  2. Patty E. New Member

    Henson Productions has the freedom to create whatever.

    What is of material concern to the public is what type of production are they preparing to create, now. The Audience has reason to be confused. An apparent, "family-style program" was preparing to incorporate a very sleazy performer/producer. An individual who actively markets porno and pimpin' videos.

    Just level with the audience.

    Patty E.
    :cool:
  3. sidcrowe New Member

    Grail...first to you

    Please don't invoke the tired ploy of citing what I've said and asking me to apologise to others, in an effort to paint me as a reckless ogre. Longtime forum members have been through it all before; it isn't fooling anyone.

    Cripes, I didn't say anything that bad, anyway :rolleyes:

    As for the rest of it, I was expecting it: it's all poor Snoop's environment.

    He's in his thirties, now–not nineties. We're not talking about the 1800s here.

    I'm poor myself. I've lived on welfare before. I've got a ton of ideas for web movies but I just can't put together enough money for the equipment I need.

    So I SUFFER. I don't STEAL :mad:

    Furthermore, I can forgive the destruction and/or theft of material things, but I've got no patience for those who commit crimes of violence, up to and including murder.

    If Snoop was writing some foul-mouthed things about the way he grew up, I could deal with that, but he was a real, genuine...FOR REAL gang member.

    His filthy, stinking comrades KILL PEOPLE FOR THE HELLL OF IT!

    I tried to wrestle with what others have to say, and if Snoop would renounce what he did and if he hadn't already been in the porno, then I could accept him on the special.

    But he has NOT renounced his Crips participation, and he continues to enjoy, exploit, and trade off the gangsta mystique. That is wrong, and I haven't encountered anyone yet who even has the guts to address the reality of what the Crips and Bloods are all about.

    What shall we tolerate next?

    An impoverished, European neo-Nazi skinhead who likes to beat the daylights out of homosexuals and Jews FOR NO REASON? But then he comes up with some rhymes and all is forgiven? Welcome to the Muppets, skinhead?

    COME ON! Gimme a break :mad:

    I'm all for anyone's freedom of expression, no matter what they have to say, but if you are a member of an organization that murders people, you're kinda carrying out an ultimate censorship on them by KILLING THEM, correct?

    If you join a gang of murderers, then it's GAME OVER.

    Do what you like, but you are NOT welcome to participate in the good things of the world.

    Go make another porno if you want, but stay the HELLL away from Jim Henson.

    Your star power running dry, Snoop? Wanna expand the ol' market share? Not with Henson, NOT EVER!

    Patty probably did play a part in the decision. We all know that Henson employees frequent this website. Muppet Central has the highest concentration of hardcore Muppet fans in the world. I only wish I could've posted before the decision, so I could take some credit too, but I can't. But I will do my bit to ensure Snoop never has a dAm-N thing to do with the Muppets again.

    Some of the last part of this post was directed at Snoop himself (as if he'd ever come here).

    I don't understand why the reality of a gang of murderers isn't sinking in around here.

    What would Jim do?

    "Hey Jim, we want a rapper in the next special. Here's one shopping himself for cheap, but, ummm..."

    "Umm, what? What are you trying not to say?"

    "He was in with the Crips. A bunch of killers. And he made a porno video last year."

    "Hmmm. I see. Keep looking for another one."

    Does anybody else imagine it being any different?

    Well?

    I'm waiting again...



    :o
  4. Skeeter Muppet Active Member

    Bull****. You insulted ArggueRadio by insinuating that he did drugs with that "are you high" crack (as in insult, not drug for all of you with your minds still in the gutter). You insulted ME by acting like an *** after I pretty much pointed out that you had insulted Arggue.

    You may not be a reckless ogre, but right now you apparently have no regard for the feelings of others.

    -Kim
  5. sidcrowe New Member

    Skeeter...

    You're the one trying your best to swear at my comments, and calling me a (class-cl).

    You are the one name-calling.

    I deconstruct ideas.

    I have the most care for the feelings, well being and SAFETY of all the members here. I have no patience for gangs of murderers. You seem to tolerate them just fine. Good thing you're not State Sheriff.

    Of course, now I have to decide whether or not to drag out another old trick, by saying that I knew you were going to react like this, and I told you so, and nyah-nyah-nyah, etc.

    Annnnd that I'm right because the only thing you're willing to contribute is spinning your wheels on a separate, unrelated non-issue that you've invented yourself just because you can't handle debating the real issue.

    Y'know what? I'm deciding against that. I'll say this instead.

    Grow the helll up, already.

    The Crips are MURDERERS, and if you join them, you're ready to KILL for them.

    Snoop-Diggity-no-talent will NOT renounce the Crips, and that means he still approves of them.

    That means he's a dirtbag scumwad criminal porno-making smut peddler gangsta, and he can't be in something nice like a Jim Henson Christmas special.

    The people at Henson made a mistake, they fixed it because I am right and you are wrong.

    Why?

    You wanna know why?

    I'll tell you. Listen closely. Here it comes.

    "Thou shalt not kill."

    Now, Skeeter, unless you've got the mind or the guts to attempt to explain away murder, I suggest you admit defeat, go back to listening to Snoop No-talent, and take note of the fact that I still haven't called you any names.

    That's what you get when you call the crowe a name, and use the bad form of "bullshirt."

    You get the truth.

    Murder is wrong.

    Duh!

    :rolleyes:
  6. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Please, you guys. This conversation doesn't have to be so heated. You both have good points but it is important to respect others as well. Just trying to diffuse things so they don't explode later on. This has been a rather heated thread.

    Thanx;)
  7. grail New Member

    ***? i wasn't trying to "paint you" as anything. what you said was wrong. it was rude, it was insensitive, and it was offensive. and when someone tried to point that out in a nicer way than i would have if i had gotten here first, you bashed her too. well, AruggeRadio may not have been here too long, but everything i have seen from them so far has been well thought out and even-handed, and Skeeter IS my friend. i was angry with what you said about them both, and made sure you knew it. i STILL believe you owe them both an apology, and furthermore, i would now like one myself. i don't give a flying **** about the personal politics anymore, that was just freakin' rude. i was NOT trying to "fool" anymore, and how dare you imply that i was. i have, in fact been one of the few folks repetedly pointing out that even though other's ideas may be unpopular, they ARE entitled to them. they are NOT, however, and this goes for everyone, allowed to bash others for having views and ideas that are different.

    i am sick and tired of the intolerant myopic ******** that only want to come in here and start trouble, and i think you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

    but you won't be...you'll use this as a reason to bash me some more...well have fun...*****.
  8. Skeeter Muppet Active Member

    Sorry to say this, Jamie, but I think the bomb squad came in too late on this one. We've crossed into the realm of personal flames. I've taken it to e-mail right now; we'll just have to wait and see if the other party will follow suit.

    -Kim
  9. sidcrowe New Member

    I've officially lost track of all the people I allegedly owe an apology to.

    I've simultaneously lost track of anyone who has the moral ammunition or wits to answer my points on the debate itself. I find I may have been mistaken for actually attempting to address both sides of the argument.

    Your combined last few posts are textbook examples of what a lousy internet chat is all about: fiddling, meticulously detailed extrapolations of pointless minutiae accompanied by a rapid degeneration of coherent ideas and an abrupt and irretrievable decay in the quality of language used.

    When confronted with an argument you can't win, your minds sputter and whistle like a kettle bought at a bargain clearing-house. On special, I might add.

    Once you have deigned your minds to be cleared of both the simple rhymes of Snoop Dogg and a hefty amount of bong resin, you might wake up and realize that murder is all three of these things:

    Serious

    Ugly

    Real

    It is because the subject of murder does not carry any significant amount of gravity for a few of you here that I refuse to be cute, or, even for the genteel good of the thread, apologize for trifles which you have magnified to high crimes in your own imaginations.

    I will, have in the past and would now apologize fro real slights, not these little things that you draw attention to. I will not validate your errors.

    Furthermore, I will certainly not entertain such requests made by people who, in so doing, insult me genuinely, utilizing both foul language and name-calling as they do so.

    Snoop is proud of his real gang past.

    His real old gang really killed people.

    He made real, explicit, XXX-rated porn last year.

    Jim Henson wouldn't have allowed a person of that ilk to be on a Muppet Show; you know that.

    Oh, wait a second–––you don't want to debate the real issue. Sorry, I forgot that for a moment.

    I'll let you three get back to burying your heads in the sands of your little "apology" drama.

    Because, as Jack Nicholson once said...

    "You can't handle the truth."

    :D
  10. Skeeter Muppet Active Member

    You're STILL evading the issue I emailed you about (you DID read that, right? If you did, you STILL choose to bring this to the message board? At least I TRIED to keep it separate...). Is that deliberate, or are you just naturally...nah, I won't say it.

    Considering the fact that the "real issue" got edited out of the final product and is now resting on the cutting room floor, WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT? He's NOT going to be on, so TECHNICALLY there's nothing for all of you who DIDN'T want him on in the first place to worry about!

    I say that someone just LOCK this thread already, and we just let this issue die. If you want to debate why he was on in the first place, take it up with the people who invited him to be on the special in the first place.

    -Kim
  11. grail New Member

    how dare you...

    you smug little holier than thou *******! there is not ONE SINGLE PERSON HERE that is advocating murder, as you keep trying to imply. and you just flat out stated that we were all on drugs, and you have the pure sack to sit there in your little glass house and say that we insulted YOU? what you don't seem to get is that we all seem to AGREE that he shouldn't be on the show. none of us actually seem to enjoy him. but if he is truly trying to turn his image around, then i am behind him 100%. i don't care how many mistakes one has made, there is always room for redemption. i would never keep a person from that chance.

    the "truth" that you claim to have given us is one only of your own invention, and not any type of real insight at all...

    get a life, jerk
  12. AruggeRadio Member

    From sidcrowe:
    <<<He made real, explicit, XXX-rated porn last year.

    Jim Henson wouldn't have allowed a person of that ilk to be on a Muppet Show; you know that.>>>

    Yes, Henson did allow someone like that to be on the Muppet show. Sylvester Stallone, did a XXX Movie in the early 1970's its no secret, yet he was still a guest star on the muppet show. Jim Henson still allowed Sly to appear on the muppet show even though it was common knowledge that Sly did that film.

    I find it funny that all you could do to put yourself over is to personally attack myself for stating something. What I had stated were facts, obviously you fear facts. You yourself may have not called Snoop a Murder but others did. Thats what I was stating thank you. But I'm not going to lower myself to your level. The topic on hand is Censorship, and our forefathers didn't fight for Free Speech just to have some yahoo with a pen who doesn't like one persons opinion decided what you or I can hear and read.
  13. sidcrowe New Member

    It's plain to see you were behind Snoop "100%" right from the start.

    If nothing else, the conduct of his most ardent fans proves what kind of people he attracts.

    I don't apologize to people who call me foul names as they ask me to do so. They don't deserve it. Plus, I have no need to apologize. The last big snit I was in was with Luke, and I apologized to him in public and in private. But no to you lot. So there :p

    You folks are collectively––like an angry alcoholic vagrant.

    You're minding your own business in public, then the vagrant looks at you and says, as he's spoiling for a fight:

    "What are you looking at?"

    Then a normal person says, in order to avoid conflict with someone who wants to start something:

    "I'm not looking at anything."

    The angry vagrant answers with:

    "You saying I'm NOTHING?!!!"

    You see? An argument over nothing. That's what you've made.

    "Get a life"

    Oh, HOW ORIGINAL OF YOU!

    We've all never heard THAT one before :rolleyes:

    We're ALL on a Muppet messageboard; why don't you ask that question of yourself :D

    You three don't have the scope or the depth to understand what a special thing Jim Henson gave us.

    The good things in the world are rare and precious.

    You've demonstrated NO moral outrage whatsoever about Snoop's participation in the Christmas special, and no amount of jubilation over his being cut out of it. But YOU ARE angry, spoiling for a fight, and determined to start one over nothing, aren't you?

    Just like an angry street vagrant.

    We know what you're really angry about. Your Snoop is booted off the Henson show. Good! He should be.

    In regards to your insistence that your anger is fueled by something else...I quote from William Shakespeare:

    "He doth protest too much."

    ;)
  14. Skeeter Muppet Active Member

    Because I never cared that he was on in the first place. And I've never cared for Snoop Dogg in the first place. That doesn't mean I have the right to judge him or any of his fans, unlike certain people in this forum (I'm not naming names; I don't have to). You are putting words in our mouths now, and drawing conclusions.

    I repeat, someone close this thread NOW, before things REALLY get out of hand.

    -Kim
  15. petrieboy Member

    The meaning of Christmas

    "The broadcast would have reinforced popular culture's sterotype of black males as foul mouthed, gangbanging, dope dealing homeboys"

    Yeah, darn those stereotypical foul mouthed, gangbanging, dope dealing homeboys who, so stereotypically, won't stop trying to appear on Muppet programs.

    I'm gonna say it again- I am a Christian- and I have had it up to the gills with this world. The world is a big, stinkin, nasty, drugged out, dreary and violent place with little bits of goodness thrown in all around. Let's think of Snoop like a "bad" kid... you reprimand the kid when he does something wrong, fine. But you reprimand the kid when he does something right (agrees to spend time with life-affirming creatures of foam and felt) and YOU are the one in the wrong.

    If you're concerned about your child being exposed to Snoop, or anyone else who's a human being who hasn't lived a "Godly" life, then why not sit down and watch the show with your child--- explaining that though we all sin, God will forgive us. I can guarantee you that Snoop would not have brought any violence, cursing, or sex to this Christmas special.

    The Muppets never fail to act out the grace of God--- but denying Snoop a chance at "redemption" is the furthest thing from grace.

    Ever hear the line from that most famous of Christmas songs...
    "GOD AND SINNERS RECONCILE"
  16. sidcrowe New Member

    AruggeRadio

    Yes, take note of what YOU really said: A 70s porno.

    That's been around for years. And it was soft core; meaning Sly didn't show his genitals. Read about it years ago.

    Snoop's video is as explicit as can be. No matter how much venom gets bandied about here, I will NOT discuss what happens in the Snoop video. Big difference between a lame sofcore from the 70s and a woman-belittling hardcore vid from a year ago. Now, to review again, just for you:

    Sly was never a member of a murderous organization; Snoop was.

    Snoop was a member of a gang of killers who killed people...DEAD!

    Murder...

    Kill...

    Dead...

    There's some sand on the ground, I suggest you start burying your head in it.

    :rolleyes:
  17. sidcrowe New Member

    petrieboy...

    The innocent people who have been KILLED by the *&^%$#@ Crips aren't getting ANY second chances.

    And until Snoop RENOUNCES his past REAL gangsta life, he has NO place on a Henson special.

    If parents have a problem with Snoop on the show, they should......wait, here's a better idea....they should just THANK THEMSELVES FOR KEEPING THE FELON OFF IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    Works for me :)

    (the only one still using smilies in this)

    (boy, Froggy is gonna shut this right down when he gets back :eek: )
  18. Skeeter Muppet Active Member

    This thing should have been shut down a LONG time ago.

    -Kim
  19. sidcrowe New Member

    I'd bet this is gonna be frozen real soon, so just to put it in a nutshell:

    Snoop Dogg was in league with a clearly defined group of killers.

    He needs to renounce that life--IN A BIG WAY––before he gets in a Henson project.

    He hasn't, and he got in anyway.

    Henson is an oasis of calm and goodness, and I hate to have it violated.

    I take it pretty seriously, I guess :(
  20. petrieboy Member

    How Many Has Snoop Killed

    The Crips killed a bunch of people huh? So, in the past, did psycho fundamentalist (but fully lost and Godless) Christians, and I label myself a Christian. Would you have kicked me off the show, seeing as how I've yet to murder anyone.
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