Let's make a deal....

[Luke]

Yes Henson has no control over Sesame other than the making of the puppets. I wouldn't say they have no influence though - they probably advise a lot. EMTV made the decision to sell off the Sesame rights - both EMTV and Henson are in financial difficulties and it both brought in extra cash, as well as taking other liabilities off them. I think Sesame Workshop had wanted this for quite a while and it basically means the characters are 'safe' from any more turmoil coming from the EMTV/Henson problems.

As for why they are in financial trouble - the company was in some trouble before EMTV bought it - they were advised that it would help them in their aims of breaking into kids TV more and so they took on the company and it's debts buying them for a price that was way too high but they thought they might be able to make back. Months later there was a stock crash and accusations of insider dealing that meant the companies all ended up going down in value very quickly and there has been serious financial problems ever since, especially as pretty much the whole of the German media has been in big trouble for the last year.

 

[Muppets1985]

Ok....but last year didn't EM.tv say that Henson WAS officealy selling off Henson in Oct 2002????




Disney %100......for me n e wayz!

 

[beaker]

>>>Having them control their own muppets should ensure their presence on the street.<<<

While I was quite unhappy when em.tv sold all the Sesame rights to Sesame Workshop, this is perhaps a scenario that may be ok. To me and most people this is a formality though, as Sesame Street is the Muppets. Im just worried what effect this could have on future Sesame/MuppetShow character crossovers. Though judging from last year's Muppetfest, I dont think that will be too much of a problem.

>>>Is Sesame Street now officialy a totally seperate entity from Henson?<<<

No way...maybe in some fancy technical sense...but you have to remember JHC will always be the central nerve nucleus to Muppetdom, even if Sesame were to be sold to say Viacom or WB.

>>>I think Sesame Workshop had wanted this for quite a while and it basically means the characters are 'safe' from any more turmoil coming from the EMTV/Henson problems<<<

That's the upside at least. I would hope though, that a stronger link be formed again once JHC is bought out and back on its feet.

 

[Luke]

As to future Muppet/Sesame links and crossovers i'd have to say it depends entirely on who exactly JHC gets taken over by. If it happens to be Disney i have a feeling either side won't be massively eager to work together. If it was a smaller company or a management buyout then you might be in luck.

Whether kinda 'spiritually' Sesame will always be part of the Muppets is one thing, but business wise i doubt there's all that much of a relationship anymore..... possibly with the puppeteers, but not as far as production, scripts, and management decisions go. I don't think EMTV would allow it without charging them !

 

[beaker]

>>>As to future Muppet/Sesame links and crossovers i'd have to say it depends entirely on who exactly JHC gets taken over by. If it happens to be Disney i have a feeling either side won't be massively eager to work together. If it was a smaller company or a management buyout then you might be in luck.<<<

Do you really think a smaller non huge congomerate or management buyout is even on the table? All indications point to a big parent company buyout right?

Whether kinda 'spiritually' Sesame will always be part of the Muppets is one thing, but business wise i doubt there's all that much of a relationship anymore<<<

Well you could make a show about Alf's brother, have that bought out by a rival company, and that would inherently always be related to "ALF". The fact of the matter is Sesame Street is by definition MUPPETS with a capital "M", no matter what company was to seperate company lines, agreements, licences, etc. Heck, even in 'Muppet canon' Kermit and Roiwlf came up with the concept...not to mention Kermit the Frog has always been a part of Sesame Street. Anyone who thinks Sesame is somehow seperate from JHC because of em.tv's folly needs to understand it is in technical jargon(And some creative) process only.
If Sesame is absolutely seperate from the Muppetshow(I define 3 categories of active Muppet properties: Muppetshow, Sesame, and Bear) what the heck was Elmo doing as a cast of the live Muppet Show?

..... possibly with the puppeteers, but not as far as production, scripts, and management decisions go. I don't think EMTV would allow it without charging them !<<<

As fans I dont think any of us give a hoot what em.tv thinks...us fans will always hold Sesame as a top intregal part of JHC and Muppetdom regardless of legalities.

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by beaker
Do you really think a smaller non huge congomerate or management buyout is even on the table? All indications point to a big parent company buyout right?

All indications haven't really pointed anywhere - people think Disney and i think Phillip hinted that Fox were interested (on behalf of Murdoch). There are some smaller companies probably in the running - HIT (who bought Barney) and Cosgrove Hall, both have fairly large amounts of money they need to invest in aquiring other companies. Rivkin's management buyout is i'm told sponsored by another German company or bank. I would think there's plenty of other smaller companies looking on. I don't think they are at a point where they have all the really large companies looking on (Disney, Viacom, Warner) though i would think a couple are seriously looking if the price is right. I really wouldn't discount other foreign companies though. Rupert Murdoch owning the Muppets would be BAD - i've worked with and for his people (one of his most famous henchmen being my first mentor when i got out of school). If he bought JHC and they didn't make enough money he'd just dump them off to some Japanese or German company or something.

I'm sure there are people around who know more than they let on - you could try Phillip, Danny or Michael - all guaranteed to know stuff. All i know is (and this is apparently from Rivkin) that the sale was already supposed to happen but it didn't for some reason. I have no idea why, who etc etc but i would make an informed guess of November and expect it will not be to Disney although i could well be suprised.

Originally posted by beaker
Well you could make a show about Alf's brother, have that bought out by a rival company, and that would inherently always be related to "ALF". The fact of the matter is Sesame Street is by definition MUPPETS

Yup in my heart and mind i would always associate 'ALF' with his 'Brother' and the whole world would always know they were 'Relatives' so to speak .... but when ALF's 'Brother' phoned up and said can i borrow some of your puppeteers or could i have access to so and so tape footage from 1977 instead of saying yes, no problem before, i would have to say no, not unless you pay up because my daddy told me you don't live here anymore. Sheesh - thats a bit cryptic !

As for Elmo at Muppetfest - while they don't give anything away for free, i think Sesame and JHC still have a great relationship and so it's easily possible puppets and puppeteers can cross the lines, but Clash would have been paid individually as a freelancer just like all the other puppeteers were. As i said - we may see the lines between the two companies muddy further down the line once we know who the new owners are, we may not. Someone like Disney i imagine would probably not allow the Muppets to appear with Sesame Characters wheras many other companies would probably be a lot more relaxed about it and want to carry on the tradition. The bigger companies are the ones who usually get irritated by anything else interfering with their brand without some deal being in place, and i would imagine that IF Disney got them, they would put a lot of work into having the Muppets be seen as Disney cousins rather than anyone else - though i'd still expect them to retain the whole 'Jim Henson' brand and operate like a seperate company - though undoubtably Rivkin would step down immediately and quite a few members of the Disney management take places on the board of JHC.

Originally posted by beaker
As fans I dont think any of us give a hoot what em.tv thinks...us fans will always hold Sesame as a top intregal part of JHC and Muppetdom regardless of legalities.

Agreed, but as fans there is a limit to what we see. It's probably a totally different scenario in the offices at Henson and i'd think they have quite tight guidelines on how they operate with certain other companies and how far the 'friends' thing can go without EM getting involved. So it matters massively to the people who ARE the Muppets.

 

[beaker]

>>>As for Elmo at Muppetfest - while they don't give anything away for free, i think Sesame and JHC still have a great relationship and so it's easily possible puppets and puppeteers can cross the lines<<<

And that's what Im talking about...JHC and Sesame WS do have a great relationship. I hope that will always be the case no matter who ends up buying out the Muppets.

>>>As i said - we may see the lines between the two companies muddy further down the line once we know who the new owners are, we may not. <<<

That would be very sweet!


Someone like Disney i imagine would probably not allow the Muppets to appear with Sesame Characters wheras many other companies would probably be a lot more relaxed about it and want to carry on the tradition.<<<

Well, I dont have a tremendous amount of priase for Disney other than a few suprises(Fantasia 2000) and PIXAR.

The bigger companies are the ones who usually get irritated by anything else interfering with their brand without some deal being in place, and i would imagine that IF Disney got them, they would put a lot of work into having the Muppets be seen as Disney cousins rather than anyone else <<<

Ick, Muppets shoul dnever be considered 'a part' of disney as far as anything but technicalities of business if the Diz was to buy them. Not many Muppet fans would like to see Muppets holed up in the spotty canon of Disney cartoons.

>>>though i'd still expect them to retain the whole 'Jim Henson' brand and operate like a seperate company - though undoubtably Rivkin would step down immediately and quite a few members of the Disney management take places on the board of JHC.<<<

to the possibility of perhaps Disney not the forerunner and smaller companies...I seriously though from indications on here in all likelyhood it was pointing towards a holdiay season era Diz buyout. I have no doubt various people in the Muppet online community are more privvy to insider knowlege.

Yet the true testament of what happens next in the ongoing JHC buyout will pretty much just happen and then we'll know.

 

[towels]

Originally posted by beaker
>>>As for Elmo at Muppetfest - while they don't give anything away for free, i think Sesame and JHC still have a great relationship and so it's easily possible puppets and puppeteers can cross the lines<<<

And that's what Im talking about...JHC and Sesame WS do have a great relationship. I hope that will always be the case no matter who ends up buying out the Muppets.

However the concern would be that it wouldn't be the JHC-Sesame relationship, it would be the Disney-Sesame relationship.

The bigger companies are the ones who usually get irritated by anything else interfering with their brand without some deal being in place, and i would imagine that IF Disney got them, they would put a lot of work into having the Muppets be seen as Disney cousins rather than anyone else <<<

Ick, Muppets shoul dnever be considered 'a part' of disney as far as anything but technicalities of business if the Diz was to buy them. Not many Muppet fans would like to see Muppets holed up in the spotty canon of Disney cartoons.

Well, you can look the other way, but if Disney buys them they will be a part of Disney whether we want it or not. Kind of how Elmo's World is a part of Sesame whether we like it or not.

 

[danielromens]

I believe that the main reason we had Elmo at the fest, is not so much do to any freelancing or sesame street nod, but more due to Kevin Clash's lack of Muppet related characters. The other puppeteers had a lot more buddies to stuff their mits into, and Kevin does not. Plus Elmo is without a doubt his most prominent creation. As for the sale, I just don't have that gut feeling that they will be eaten by the mouse, but rather someone with less character properties. Yes Diz is a greedy one, but I don't think they'll be willing to pay the price.

 

[kansasteen14]

dont get mad but I hope Disney buys them,I mean look at muppets 3D and they have a great float in a parade at WDW,I hope they are bought by Disney and Disney shows it.some new theme park stuff would be great.also if you go to intercot.com they are discussing this in the news and rumors forum.