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Full-body costume puppets

Discussion in 'Puppet News' started by ScottMonster, Jan 21, 2003.

  1. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    So basically..... your speaking out in a public forum with a question "directed" only to one person but you were not trying to attack or cast shadow on a local MC member?

    Then again.... maybe I'm wrong and your e-mail doesn't work properly. :rolleyes:
  2. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Member

    I said I wouldn't comment after my last statements but I think it should at least be said so everyone knows how I feel.


    Buck,

    The comments about the 5th grade tattletale are not directed at you. You simply chose to respond to my message so please overlook that and don't take it personally. I think you took the brunt of what was being said to mean you personally. Understand I was referring to the group attitude in general. It should also be said that the situation was much more hostile in other threads before I came along and even made a comment. Please understand that my intent was to make a point and not single you out. Again you chose to respond so I replied back. I certainly, did not intend to open this can of worms above, made by others, that in my opinion, is in questionable taste.

    Beleive it or not Buck, I really agree with your statements that you made back to me. It's hard to make right or wrong of issues like copyright when it's such a large grey area and open for interpretation. Copyright was intended to protect not hinder or berate people. I totally agree with you on that.

    Back when Barney first became popular I was at a large entertainment tradeshow and had the opportunity to speak to HIT about copyrights. Their legal team told me they would actively persue *anyone* infringing on the Barney Trademark or likeness. Even fan-made costumes, profit or not. I thought that was a bit harsh but they stood their ground. Course, that was about a billion years ago...or so it feels like...and they may have lightend up a lot since then. But that just goes to show how everything is open to interpretation. Like Buck and I, both said.

    I do feel sometimes that people in the forum can be a little over-zealous in their attempts to remind people that selling puppet replicas is against the law. Coming from an unbaised member of the board (remember I don't care much of it either way) sometimes however, it can come across as a little over the top so, I think a little kindness along with the good intent can go a long way.

    Buck, as puppeteer and builder I do value your opinions and knowelge even if we don't always agree eye to eye. ;) Sometimes, suprisingly, we do. I hope that this will put an end to any question you my have about hostility towards you. I have nothing but admiration and respect....especially for someone who can debate or make think fast on my feet. :)

    So here's hoping we can shake hand and be friends....

    (Just let me take this puppet off my hand first)

    Fragglerockr

    And now back to rubber chickens!!!
  3. Blink

    Blink Member

    I was speaking in a public forum directly to a person as many poeple do here including yourself (via the QUOTE button). It's not that unusual.

    If you really want to get in to it...okay? But for someone who respects Buck, why are you pushing the issue?

    Buck has not returned my emails ever since he disappeared (over 3 years ago) feeling "guilty" as he has stated on his website.

    *sighs*

    Once again, I was not attacking Buck and there is not shadow to be cast. Buck himself has dedicated a long entry on his own website addressing the (general) issue. Go here to read it (please note this does not even refer to me; this stuff happened even after me).

    Does that clarify finally? Can we now stop talking about Buck and go back to the point about copyrights?

    - Blink :sleep:
  4. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    :concern: :eek: Poor Taste Indeed.:rolleyes:
  5. Blink

    Blink Member

    Poor taste? What exactly? Your pushing the issue, your popshot at me about using email or Buck's publically posted information (on his website) that has been put up there by him?

    - Blink :boo:
  6. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    Who's pushing the issue? I made no comment directly to you about what you said other than your additional shots at Buck were in bad taste..... who cares about the fact that your e-mails are being ignored. Based on this conversation with you.... I'd ignore them too!

    YES.... POOR TASTE on the whole thing and I can't beleive that I got roped into this conversation with someone who ...... oh nevermind....You know what? You want to argue, fight, or throw your digs .... then send me a personal e-mail and we can debate back and forth all you want.

    Otherwise.... move on already.
  7. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    *shakes head and sighs*



    PIG PILE!
  8. Blink

    Blink Member


    I really don't want to a part of this anymore either. I choose to refrain from outbursts.

    - Blink

    I apologize to others who had to be witness to this. Sorry everyone. Can we please, pretty please, now go back to the copyright issue?

    *takes a deeeeep sigh* :sympathy:
  9. CB Boy

    CB Boy New Member

    :mad:

    I only visit here once and then so I don't wanna get in to anything with people...but I'm tired of this stuff with Buck in a number of forums, not just here. I gotta say up front that I'm not impartial, Buck and I go way back.

    Blink man, we've never met or spoken or anything I think but I know your stuff which is really great and a few people (Buck included) have told me that yer a really talented, cool guy. I gotta say I thought you had more class than to take him out publically in a thread like this. That's a shame man. A real shame. If you've got an issue with him - try emailing him personally. Have you done that? Tell you what, do that and if he won't deal with your issue I'll personally kick his but about it.

    I hope Buck's OK with me sayin' this, but just to clear it up a bit here's the deal...like I said I've known Buck a long time and I was hearing all about it when he started having trouble with his puppet business two years ago. Because of a whole bunch of crap that happened he had to shut it down last year. When he did some of his customers lost deposits they had paid for stuff and he had a big stack of unpaid bills and a lot of them were from Canadian puppet people. Usually when this kind thing happens people's accountants or whatever just tell them to go bankrupt and if you were owed money, well that's too bad for you.

    But I respect the heck out of Buck because he didn't do that. He's tried to be a stand up guy about it and vowed to settle the whole mess sooner or later and it could take him years. He's been open about everything that's happened with him over the past two years and that's got to be embarassing for him. He did a long post about this in his blog last year - go there and search for it if you want to read the details.

    A lot of people have done and said some awful stuff to and `bout Buck. His office was sprayed painted by somebody ticked off about it. People who used worked for him were threatened and intimidated. I'm not naming names (it wasn't Blink though) but some pretty well-regarded folks would be embarassed if stuff they said or done was public knowledge.

    Maybe he deserves it. I dunno. I'm not saying the guy's an angel or perfect, but this whole thing with his business wrecked his life and I think he's dealt with as best he could. I'd challenge you to find somebody anywhere on the whole flipping `net who spends more time sharing puppet info, helping people and answering questions than Buck. Whatever mistakes he made or bad judgements or whatever he's done a lot more good here and elsewhere so don't dump on the guy here.
  10. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    My sentiments exactly! I was so ticked at the personal comments made about Buck that I went off half cocked. *grin*

    You nailed it and well Said I might add!

    What really blew me away was the fact that Buck has mentioned Blinks site and talent on several occassions and it burned me to see him make negative comments about Buck in such a public manner.

    I too read Bucks posts where he went into detail of his past business decisions and mishaps. These things happen, and Buck is still a stand up all around good guy trying to do whats right WITHIN HIS MEANS! You can't make everyone happy, but he's done more than most people would put effort to do and I totally respect and admire him.
  11. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Active Member

    Wow. What do you say? I haven't gone through all of this yet, but wanted to post a few things and then leave it at that.

    Most of Cb's post is true - I had a puppetry company that fell victim to what is commonly called "the start up squeeze", ran in to serious financial problems and had to shut it down. It all happened very quickly I did a very poor job of communicating with clients and vendors (many of whom are in the Canadian puppetry community) so there has been much confusion about how and what went down exactly. The "Yom Kippur" blog post people are referring to is here and has the whole story for anyone who's really curious (I'm in the process of overhauling my site so if the link is broken just search the blog for the October 7th 2003 entry and you'll find it).

    A minor point though - the office was not spray painted, but it was vandalized. It was a "puppet person" that did it and I do hope they stick to puppetry, because they weren't a very smart vandal.

    Seriously though, when something like what happened with my business goes down people get hurt and angry and believe me several people were hurt and angry. That's something I'm truly sorry for. Some people were really amazing and understanding too. But above the financial considerations, feelings were hurt and several friendships and professional relationships were ruined with people who I really respected and cared for. It's something I'm still bothered by but I guess you can't change the past. It was bad news all around for all concerned and I can understand why people would be angry and want to vent.

    As for Blink's specific complaint - it's mostly true too. He helped me out by loaning me a few yards of antron when I was building for a TV pilot we both worked on. I never did get around to sending some antron back to him which was very inconsiderate of me. We both been in the forum a long time and the subject of the puppets has not been raised before - in public or private (to my knowledge anyway). To be honest I had actually forgotten about them. I did not pay for them, but I didn't get them either, which may be more my fault than Blink's. If they're still around I'm sure we could work something out via email.
  12. Show and Tell

    Show and Tell Member

    Yep I called that one didn't I *Gulp*Well Buck, most of us still love ya.
  13. Beebers

    Beebers New Member

    I knew nothing of any of this. It matters not. Public attacks, and public attacks over what should be private issues, are inappropriate. That's what private meetings are for, to hash these things out. And I hold as high an opinion of Buck now as I did before reading this thread.

    :cool:
  14. Erine81981

    Erine81981 Active Member

    Whats with this thread?

    Oh Hey I want to PIG PILE!!!! *jumps up*



    PIG PILE!!! WEEEEEEEEE!!! *lands w/ a thud* Ouch that hurt. There's no cusion. This stinks. I'm leaving. *walks out the door*

    JUST KIDDING!!!! *rushes and falls on Blink* Sorry about that. I just wanted to be part of the Pig Pile. See yea!
  15. trooper_trent

    trooper_trent New Member

    I thought this place was different from other "flame war" forums.
    Guess I was wrong.
    This is not how I choose to spend my spare time.

    I dont think I'll be coming here anymore.
  16. Blink

    Blink Member

    Hey Buck. I was wondering when you would show up. As I said before, I simply stated a fact that was relevant to my talking about puppets with you. I knew you would be mature enough to handle the point I made (which, from your response, you clearly are). We both know that I have not been a part of forum Buck Bashing.

    I think this thing has been blown way out of proportion (mostly by people who see no difference between me and the people who vandalized your office). I am sure you do however see that difference. I mean, I mentioned it once in three years; pretty good I'd say.

    It is interesting how people choose to take things. You had posted that explanation on your website about your situation and when I made a reference to it, I was seen as doing something wrong. What!?

    If I was about attacking you, we both know I could have gone into specifics about things with my perspective only (soap box under foot). Instead I shared your account of things (something you had already done; it was a matter of public record). CB Boy did the same thing. Anyone on his case for dragging it up again? You did the same thing again by posting it once more. It is all a matter of how a person chooses to see things.

    Seeing as how you had forgotten about what had happened, I am now even more solid in my mentioning the stuff about the puppets and material. It has worked to remind you, yaaaa! :excited:

    So please do drop me and email. I have already emailed CB Boy (who was invited to share the email with you) and I have it under his word that if you don't email me back you will have a swift shoe headed for your behind.

    - Blink :)
  17. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    Blink, your not reading what everyone has said. I think your so stuck on the fact that you were right that you refuse to see what everyone is so upset about.

    As a mature individual, you simply do not hash out personal things in a public forum, it's inappropriate and rude. It was perceived as you trying to Bash a member of MC...... when a lot of us consider everyone here family, or at least good friends.

    I think we both allowed our tempers and feelings on the subject to take control of the situation and cause a *few* outbursts. I never said what you were stating was untrue.... .my whole issue with the matter is again, the fact that you choose this format to discuss a private issue that could very well ruin the reputation had someone who didn't know Buck read it and automatically gain that perception of him.

    You keep saying that you HAD to bring it up and that it's a good thing. I disagree, because I think what you did was and still is wrong. But, we are people... and we're allowed to disagree.

    I'm really glad to see that a lot of people jumped in to stand up for the fact that Buck is really a good guy so that anyone who doesn't know Buck will take everyone's opinion into consideration.

    TROOPER TRENT: I'm sorry if you were offended. Forums are not always going to be bright happy places. It's a large group of people and sometimes when your rubbing elbows, tempers flare. It's no different than a large family full of siblings. We're all *Big* kids and have our fights once in a while. I think we all refrained from name calling and swearing and the same can't be said for those flaming forums that your speaking of. Things always seem to work out in the end and people go back to playing nice in the sandbox again. *laughing*

    HEEEEEYYYyyy who took my shovel? ;)
  18. Blink

    Blink Member

    Puppetplanet, this is less about me being right and more about what I wrote. I said something to Buck (a reminder of sorts?). You and others didn't like it. So you decided to accuse me of attacking him.

    If you had stayed out of it and it went from my first post to Buck's last post (and my response to his post) it would have been something that actually ended up being an eventful comment. Buck has been reminded about the stuff outstanding and he and I can hash things out (in private). Making a comment and hashing things out are two completely different things (as I see them). What happened instead was someone trying to protect Buck from "an attack" (my guess is that this has more to do with others who have attacked him in the past) and I seemed like a good person to take out frustration on.

    The private issue wasn't "discussed" until I was challenged on mentioning a fact that ended up helping to clear things up (between him and I). I've never been one to mince words. If I were attacking Buck it would been a long and direct rant. I didn't do that.

    I agree that our debate went on way too much, and for that I apologize to everyone. As for his reputation being wrecked, Buck's and my last posts show that communication is the key to understanding, which is what is happening. I thought that allowing others to read his version of what happened was a way to have those who might have thought gotten the wrong idea to understand better (since it had become an issue). I didn't give a one sided version of things (which I could have done).

    I don't think I said I "HAD" to bring it up, but rather that I "DID" because it was relevant to Buck and I and the issue at hand. I agree with you 100% we are allowed to disagree, and I it is clear to me that you and I choose to see things differently. I respect that, and have no need to change your mind.

    I've never posted that Buck is not a good guy, I simply commented to him. It seems that you are angry (understood). If three years from now you make a relevant comment to the fact that I mentioned that you feel I attacked Buck, then you have my blessing (even though we disagree about what happened and Buck and I agree about what happened). I do things (like Buck) that people are not happy about. Mentioning it as a side note in a relevant conversation (directly to me) years later, would not be an attack or hashing things out (to me). But again we can agree to disagree.

    I have always been big on communication. I am looking forward to Buck's email.

    It is good that people don't take one person's comments and make conclusions, that would be ignorant. I am gald people can withhold judgement before finding out more information. Which Buck has expalined in his Blog, that people were directed to.

    I also agree with your point to Trooper Trent. I would encourage him to remain in the forum (here). Forums are not always nice places and tempers can flare, but they are also places where people are allowed to disagree (and that is not always pleasant).

    Buck knows me, and he can stand up for himself (although it is always good when others are willing to as well). If he feels like I was bashing him, he will let me know and we can hash that out (don't worry.....in private). I too like it when all we all decide to go back to playing nice in the sandbox.

    *picks up shovel and hands it to puppet planet nicely*

    - Blink :)
  19. Puppetplanet

    Puppetplanet Member

    Well, this is a public forum. If you didn't want others to comment on something you said specifically about another member, then it should have started out as a private conversation. Posting it in a public forum leaves it open to speculation, and comments from the peanut gallery.


    Yes Trent.... please do stay!


    There it is! Thank You!

    *takes shovel and begins to build Fraggle caves*
  20. fragglerockr

    fragglerockr Member

    Not to change the subject....but getting back on topic...


    Anyone who went to MuppetFest know how tall Sweetums actually is? I used to work at MGM and I think the costume requirement was 6' even. It would make the performer about 6'2" or 6'3" but that's the Muppet Vision suit.

    Reason I ask is that I'm thinking about making a Sweetums costume for myself for halloween this year. Provided I have time. It looks relatively easy just going to cost a nice chunk of change for the fur/furs.

    I may have to pad the shoes since I'm only 5'9"...so I'm a little short. If I do it I'll keep my progress posted.

    Fragglerockr


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