Dilated pupils

Show and Tell

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I've seen several JH puppets that have pupils that dilate and wonder if anyone has a clue of how they did that trick. From Wembly at Fraggle Rock to Gonzo. Hopefully this isn't some trade secret.
 

Buck-Beaver

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Hmm...I've never caught that. Probably saw it but don't remember. I have seen this done on other puppet shows as animation in post production.
 

leliebel

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I think they usually use an other set of eyes, and you don't see the pupils actually dialate, but dialated in a different take.

Can you give an example?
 

Buck-Beaver

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That's true - they have done that a lot. They shoot the puppet normally, then cut away, swap out the eyes and cut back to the puppet. I have actually seen it done where the pupils dialate but I don't think it was the Muppets.
 

Beebers

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You can do it in post, assuming you have the right editing toys, or it can be done with separate shots using separate puppets.

Or, same puppet with interchangeable eyeballs/pupils.

:cool:
 

Buck-Beaver

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...or some kind of really elaborate mech.

Actually, the illusion of the same effect can be created with moving eyelids like Gonzo's.
 

Jinx

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The eyes have it!

My favorite example of pupil changing would have to be at the end of "Happiness Hotel" in "The Great Muppet Caper". Gonzo takes everyone's picture and they do a quick edit wherein they've switched the pupils on all the puppets to little teeny dots. Very funny!

The only time I can ever recall a puppet's eyes in the action of dilating would be ET, when his eyes blink and dilate in reaction to light. A VERY elaborate set up and mechanical achievement. This particular set of eyes actually contained mechanical irises. There were, of course, several different puppets/costumes/gloves/limbs/eyes to create ET, and usually character pieces were only used in specific shots for specific purposes. A mechanical iris is a rather delicate thing, and so were only used in shots requiring active dilation.

My opinion is that a dilating pupil would be far more difficult, expensive etc. to warrant contruction of such a rig, unless absolute realism is required and budgeted for.
 

Show and Tell

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hmm Ill have to do some research because I am sure I saw Gonzo's pupils dilate on screen many times, usually when looming over some hot chick-en. Not all of the Muppets do that so I just thought it was a special feature of Gonzo's. And I remember an episode of Fraggle Rock where Wembly's eyes did that too. It's been so long so I can't exactly remember what happened to him to cause this but I think I remember thinking it was some really cool trick to watch his pupils get bigger like that right before my eyes.
I have an idea of how it could have been done that wouldn't be so complex but I don't know if thats how they did it or not.

Theory: Have a white of the eye with a whole drilled and smoothly sanded to insert the pupil. Place a clear hard plastic cover over that white of the eye leaving about 1/8" space between it and the white part. Put a very small black balloon inside the whole to be the pupil and have just enough air in it to make it round. Make both eyes alike and couple together with airline hose running down the inside of the puppet to hang below the puppet. Put a squeeze bulb at the end of the airline hose. Then the puppeteer can simply grab the bulb and squeeze lightly and the balloons should inflate just enough to appear like the pupils are dilating.

Well? Sound crazy enough? Only problem I can think of is removing the glare from the plastic domes covering the eyes. But then that could just be a camera trick too. Actually if you left that glare it would give the illusion of a glazed over look. LOL
CORRECTION..... It was Boober that had dilated pupils. Not Wembly
 

leliebel

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Í actually though that with gonzo it was an eyebrow thing
 

Buck-Beaver

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Puppet_Builder said:
hmm Ill have to do some research because I am sure I saw Gonzo's pupils dilate on screen many times, usually when looming over some hot chick-en. Not all of the Muppets do that so I just thought it was a special feature of Gonzo's.
That's actually an optical illusion. Gonzo has an eyelid mech. People often think they've seen the Muppets do things they can't. A lot of people claim Piggy can bat her eyelashes but that's also an optical illusion.

It's all just the handiwork of very talented puppeteers! :smile:
 
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