CGI replacing puppets and cartoons :(

[bazooka_beak]

CGI is frustrating for cel collectors like myself I can't collect cels from recent shows; the most I can hope for is a random sketch, and those are rare so they're pretty expensive!

 

[Drtooth]

Yeah... production drawings, you mean?

Cels have been gone since the late 90's, when everything started switching over to digital ink and paint. On the plus side, cels are getting cheaper and easier to find (provided it isn't Disney or Warner Bros). I was able to get a cel of this scene of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog relatively cheap. Like I think 15-20 bucks... I forget how much.

Just with no background. The background ones are very pricey.

 

[mupcollector1]

I hope they do not do a new walk around thing.... I have a strong dislike for them...

Yeah they creap me out too. My best friend is going to Walt Disney World in October and we were joking around on how the people inside can't even do the character's voice, they are just silent.

 

[mupcollector1]

Yeah... and the only reason why we even HAVE a Ronald McDonald was that McDonalds used to have appearances by local Bozo the Clowns, and just wanted their own clown.

Really. lol I've heard of Bozo before. Heard he was very popular for some reason. But if it comes to clowns. I'll take Krusty the Clown any day of the week, and it's perfect because he's a sell out and he keeps getting technical difficulties at Krusty Burger. lol (I love classic Simpsons). I think they had a Krusty Burger King commercial a few years back were he chokes on a burger and Homer tackles him and Krusty beats him up. Funny commercial. But it wasn't on the air that much. I bet a bunch of PC thugs talked to the FCC to rip it off the air due to cartoon slapstick violence. Who knows. lol

 

[mupcollector1]

Yeah... production drawings, you mean?

Cels have been gone since the late 90's, when everything started switching over to digital ink and paint. On the plus side, cels are getting cheaper and easier to find (provided it isn't Disney or Warner Bros). I was able to get a cel of this scene of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog relatively cheap. Like I think 15-20 bucks... I forget how much.

Just with no background. The background ones are very pricey.

Cool. I still need to get myself a cel myself. I do have a layout production drawing from Ren & Stimpy on my wall. It's really cool. I won it off of eBay for about $30.

Nice cel. My best friend would be so jealous. He's a huge Sonic fan. lol

 

[D'Snowth]

Rocky and Bullwinkle was the first cartoon series to be outsourced. In fact, the idea of outsourcing started popping up before that series, and Jay just heard about that idea and how it was cheaper and there were tax incentives... of course, they went to a Mexican firm and immediately regretted it. The funny thing is, they were going to use a Japanese firm, but the building didn't exist yet, and they were going to use Ward Productions' check to fund the building of the studio.

But outsourcing animation had been around since the 60's. Most of those Rakin Bass specials and TV shows? Japanese outsourced. It didn't start to become common practice to outsource to Japan until the late 70's, and then all the way into the 80's and 90's until it became too expensive and they had to go to Korea. And the funny thing is, Japanese anime studio also TOTALLY Outsource to Korea too.

However, 2 current cartoons were Japanese animated. The single episode of Super Friends made as a free pack in with Fisher Price's Super Friends toy line about a year ago, and the new Thundercats, as the original was Japanese animated as well.

Very rarely are American (or even Canadian) cartoons animated in-house... I remember watching behind-the-scenes footage of Ed, Edd n Eddy for example, while the cartoon is drawn-out (they still hand-drew the cartoon), and painted/colored in-house at a.k.a. CARTOON in Vancouver, all of the materials are shipped out to Korea for them to animate, and then when that's done, it's sent back to them for them to edit it all together with the sound, and other post stuff that needs to be doen, it's all mixed together, recorded onto a video tape, then sent to Cartoon Network in Atlanta.

Heck, some shows that utilize puppets hardly ever build and construct their puppets in-house either... like when Jim was alive, the Muppets were built and constructed in-house, but since the Henson Company sold the Classic Muppets to Disney, now they character construction is out-sourced from a company called Puppet Heap. Other than that, most shows commission companies like these to built their puppets for them. I think Sid & Marty Krofft were the only ones (and probably still are) who always completely constructed all of their puppets, set, etc, in-house.

 

[mupcollector1]

Very rarely are American (or even Canadian) cartoons animated in-house... I remember watching behind-the-scenes footage of Ed, Edd n Eddy for example, while the cartoon is drawn-out (they still hand-drew the cartoon), and painted/colored in-house at a.k.a. CARTOON in Vancouver, all of the materials are shipped out to Korea for them to animate, and then when that's done, it's sent back to them for them to edit it all together with the sound, and other post stuff that needs to be doen, it's all mixed together, recorded onto a video tape, then sent to Cartoon Network in Atlanta.

Heck, some shows that utilize puppets hardly ever build and construct their puppets in-house either... like when Jim was alive, the Muppets were built and constructed in-house, but since the Henson Company sold the Classic Muppets to Disney, now they character construction is out-sourced from a company called Puppet Heap. Other than that, most shows commission companies like these to built their puppets for them. I think Sid & Marty Krofft were the only ones (and probably still are) who always completely constructed all of their puppets, set, etc, in-house.

That's very interesting and so true too. I never thought of the puppet industry being that way but it's sort of true. And what's sad is that the people who build the puppets don't have creative freedom of a project, instead they take orders from the company. I know that a few ex-friends of mine try to put me in that kind of situation with animation. They called it collaboration. (rolling my eyes) then I told them that this wasn't collaboration and if we were collaberating then I want to be part of the creative process and have the same equal creative rights as they did. Then they got all ticked off at me saying nasty untrue things acting all juvinile and fired me and decided to animate their progess themselves with no knowledge or love of the art at all. They told me they wanted low quality, cheap drawings, cheap animation, so they get faster and more chances of getting rich. Long story short, I thought about the biz a little bit and looking at my pictures of Jim on the wall thinking "Jim would never do that, he was fair to his employees" and it's the same hogwash I've heard one too many times before "It's not about art, it's about making money, blah blah blah." Even though the biz is there to make a living, I'm in it for the art %100

Anyway, yeah, it seems like there's not a lot of creator controlled things out there. It kind of reminds me of all the things I remember hearing John Kricfalusi talking about from time to time warning us about the biz slowly coming back to the corperate controled, and it's sort of true in a way. Sadly enough, but I'm a kind of artist who's willing to fight for creative freedom and artist fairness.

But some other companies I think still have a bit of creative freedom in their projects.
Anyone heard of Apollo's Pad? If not, I strongly recommend checking it out. The puppet company is from Canada called The Grogs and they created Mr. Meaty for Nickelodeon. But for this project, they didn't create the characters but they did create not only the puppets and performed them but I think they were given freedom to give them personalities and write the scripts and all the gags and stuff. They went from the internet to a full 10 minute show on Canadian TV just recently. I love those guys, can't wait for the DVD

But yeah, the Eds are very creator controlled. In fact they lived the lives like artists do at work. They get down to work and during their breaks, they have inner child spirited fun like Sock'um Bumper fights and such. It's been tradition dating back to the Termite Terace days of Looney Tunes were the cartoonists would play rough pranks on each other. And of course let's not forget the mischief of Mr. Don Salhin. (aka Crazy Harry) lol

But yeah, went I hear wonderful stories like that. I always think, YEAH! That's the life for me. It's just in the matter of working hard to get stuff out there.

 

[Drtooth]

Nice cel. My best friend would be so jealous. He's a huge Sonic fan. lol

There was a Robotnik, but it was well over what I had on me at the time, and it was only half his body, hanging out a window (same episode, later scene). I was also looking at TMNT ones, but they had none of them that were good characters and good poses. They did have one of Raph just walking into frame for 7 bucks. Almost bought that as a joke.

Personally, I'd LOVE to find a Toei animated Muppet Babies, or better yet, Little Muppet Monster cel.

Very rarely are American (or even Canadian) cartoons animated in-house... I remember watching behind-the-scenes footage of Ed, Edd n Eddy for example, while the cartoon is drawn-out (they still hand-drew the cartoon), and painted/colored in-house at a.k.a. CARTOON in Vancouver, all of the materials are shipped out to Korea for them to animate, and then when that's done, it's sent back to them for them to edit it all together with the sound, and other post stuff that needs to be doen, it's all mixed together, recorded onto a video tape, then sent to Cartoon Network in Atlanta.

Currently, or for some time now? We all know Filmation, and the fact they only outsourced one series, Zorro. Much as I respect what they did, Zorro had movement. There are some flash animation studios (Soup to Nuts for example) that still animate things in the US. I was this close to trying to get an internship there, but I couldn't find the place. It's in my state too.

 

[mupcollector1]

I've actually heard that Toon Boom is the leading animation software and some are even going back to doing "In-House" animation using it.

I know that South Park is all in-house using Maya and Corel.

I just got the latest version of Toon Boom Studio, it looks amazing but I got to watch my elearning videos so I can know how to work it, it seems complicated if you try to learn it without a manual in which is how I do things with anything regardless. lol

 

[mr3urious]

A little old, but still very informative: Amalgamated Dynamics founders Tom Woodruff, Jr. and Alec Gillis discuss in detail why producers go with CG over practical effects, citing things such as box office safeness, ease of post-production correction, and tax incentives, though not really cost, as they say using practical is about 3 to 6 times less than visual FX even after accounting for the costs of hiring puppeteers and stuff.